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This topic was originally posted in this forum: Improvised Weapons

Author	Topic: Blowgun Darts.
newbie1 Frequent Poster	posted March 04, 2000 08:26 PM hoju, what is the streamer of the dart made of? hair?
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 04, 2000 08:31 PM it looks like that doesn't it it is a brown piece of yarn actually. it was a thick piece though, not like regular yarn. it works really well ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth [This message has been edited by Ho ju (edited March 04, 2000).]
VeHeMT Frequent Poster	posted March 04, 2000 10:10 PM Half an inch = .5 cal, or .50 . Want better penetration and longer lasting tips? Drill a hole(1/8") down the middle of a dowel about .5 to .75" down or remove the pencil lead then epoxy a piece steel rod or coat hanger wire in its place. Sharpen with dremel moto-tool. Never worry about the tip getting blunt or broken like the pencil crayon or pencil would. Only needs occasional sharpening.
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 04, 2000 10:22 PM well the first dart i made with the small screw driver is my fav thus far. the metal tip will never break and it flies pretty good. another good dart is a crochet needle or a long thick sewing needle. small needles do not work well cause they really have no mass so they do not fly far and they do not hit hard. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth
nbk2000 Moderator	posted March 04, 2000 11:22 PM Coat hanger wire makes excellent darts. Take a 3" length, heat one end red hot about 1/2" and pound it flat with a hammer . Once it's cooled down, file it to a razor sharp blade. Reheat and dunk in water to make it hard. For some real fun, cut the wire in half and file the ends flat. Powder one end so it won't stick to the tape. Take a couple of inches of tape and wrap it around the 2 pieces where they join, then twist the powdered end so the 2 pieces can easily seperate. This prevents the target from pulling out the dart since it will sink in to the tape if you put enough air behind it. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 05, 2000 02:05 PM here is my latest and favorite dart so far. it is made very simply. the tail on the end is a streamer so the thing flies flat if you want to add a dart tip on the end of it. other wise you do not really need it. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 05, 2000 02:08 PM i do not have a scan of it cause i have only made one and i lost it in the woods by my house. (it shot farther than expected, about 40 yards with a good blow. the copper pipe was angled at about 45 degrees) ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth [This message has been edited by Ho ju (edited March 05, 2000).]
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 05, 2000 04:15 PM Once again i out do the last dart i made. this one, made from toilet paper, duct tape and a nail. much better than the last one. flies harder, longer and has a point. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth
Apathetic Frequent Poster	posted March 05, 2000 07:42 PM Another way to modify a dart would be to use NBK's method, but on the tip of the dart you would glue/epoxy an unbent fishing hook. So that when the dart penetrates the barb from the hook gets caught in the flesh and makes it even more difficult to remove
nbk2000 Moderator	posted March 06, 2000 02:01 AM The neat thing about pounding the wire flat to make the point is that it gets wider than the wire. You file notches into the blade point then you don't need a fish hook because the point is already barbed. Less hassle and less stuff to go wrong. Also, I remember reading about someone making dart cones by using a plumb bob weight heated in boiling water and pressed into a sheet of plastic made by cutting off the rounded ends of plastic soda bottles and cutting the cylinder lengthwise. Then the cones are cut out and trimmed to fit perfectly in the blowgun. The dart wire is pressed through the tip and held in place with glue. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 06, 2000 09:04 PM Here is the mother of all blow darts (minus the bladed tip) it measures 20 cm long, and flies just as hard and fast (if not harder and faster than the nail dart...which was pretty good in it's own right) you become a crack shot with this (ie make a near perfect dart and have an excelent blowgun) you could easily kill someone with a shot to the eye or kidney. (i am not saying the others wouldn't kill just this one would do a better job of it ) one thing i have noticed while shooting these things is that there is a limit on the strength you can blow. if you blow to hard the dart does not fly strait. a nice blow though will do some serios damage with this or the nail dart. tomorrow i will make the bladed dart and test it out on trees and shit. i do not even report the penetration anymore with these things cause they have no prob with walls or cardboard. oh and the shaft is made out of a coat hanger like nbk suggested...( it works great ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth [This message has been edited by Ho ju (edited March 06, 2000).]
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 07, 2000 04:40 PM with the dart style above (i actually have 2 darts like this) i can get a group about the size of an adult mans back at 50 feet. needless to say you tip something like this with ricin and you are all set. What i love about blow guns is that they are so silent. they make for a near perfect assassination tool (if you get a blowgun in two pieces that screw together) ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth
West Frequent Poster	posted March 08, 2000 02:27 AM certainly the use of wide diametre pipe makes blowing the thing far easier.. The bottom ones from the method on makeshift arsenal and blows the other two away.. the middle i mentioned before, and the top is a nail cut off and pushed into half of one of those things you clean your ears out with, this one works best out of a sluggun..
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 08, 2000 03:40 PM A wide diameter barrel is easier to blow things out of? are you sure it is not a small diameter barrel? when i used my 3/4" pvc pipe and i compare it to my 1/2" copper pipe i find the copper one way better in every possible scenario. you might of just miss spoke but i am more than certain that a smaller diameter pipe is much better for blow guns. it fits your mouth better and when blowing, the air entering the tubing goes faster due to the smaller bore size of the blowgun. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth
nbk2000 Moderator	posted March 08, 2000 06:57 PM Wider is easier to blow through. Compare blowing through a straw with blowing through a toilet paper tube. But the material of the tube also matters. Copper is much smoother than the PVC. Just rub your fingers inside. It may not seem like much, but to a dart it can be a big difference. Try using a copper pipe of larger size. It should be more powerful. Also, longer lengths give more range and speed. Have you looked at aluminum tubing? It's cheaper and lighter than copper. If you can get that, use it instead of copper. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 08, 2000 07:05 PM well what i was getting at is it is actually easier to blow through a smaller diameter pipe with force because your mouth is only so big. if you had a huge mouth you should use like a 3/4" or even a full inch. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth
Lice[4K] A New Voice	posted March 08, 2000 08:33 PM I would have to agree with Ho Ju on that one. When I blow darts out of a bigger tube, they dont go too far. When I use a smaller tube, more force can be applied to the dart and in return it travels farther. I came up with an idea not too long ago when I was playing around with a can of Freon. I took ink pen tubes and attached a few and shot a shoe-lace dart out of them. Somewhat like the super-soaker idea but it it smaller and more convenient. They shoot quite far and can easily puncture through my wooden bedroom door all the way untill the shoe-lace part hit. This is from about 15 feet. I have made many mod's to this and it can shoot just about anything lethal including pellets but darts have the best range and effect. Lice
West Frequent Poster	posted March 09, 2000 08:11 AM I should have said "wider diametre" rather than "wide" as i meant for it to compare to the 3 darts in the picture, the bottom uses 5/8 and the middle 1/4. You bust your cheeks trying to blow any dart out of a 1/4" pipe, whereas you can pretty much breath down the 5/8 and she'll go a couple metres. Say youve got a tyre with a hole in it, if the hole if small you can easily stop the air coming out by using your thumb, as it takes little pressure to stop, bigger hole and you need much more pressure.. Same principle as blowing the dart through the friction of the pipe (im open to corrections on this one, never done physics in school).
Zanx Frequent Poster	posted March 09, 2000 08:56 AM It is easier to blow through a wider diameter tube, but your dart won't go as far. It is a lot easier to blow something far from a 1/4" pipe of the same length as a larger diameter tube like a T.P. one because in the smaller one, you use the same amount of Force, but it is in a smaller Area, so there is more Pressure pushing the dart. (P=F/A)
VeHeMT Frequent Poster	posted March 09, 2000 07:16 PM The relation between blowgun diameter and performance depends on such things as length of blowgun, lung capacity of shooter etc... For everyone it will be different. There is always an optimum diameter and tube length for a given volume of air. My first home made air rifle didnt do as well as planned since the volume of air that was being released was so massive, far too much for my .177 barrel. However if I had a .22 barrel better performance would have undoubtedly occured. But if you have a lesser volume of air, than a smaller diameter would be ideal. I hope you understand what im trying to say.
West Frequent Poster	posted March 09, 2000 11:56 PM The way i see it, compare a 1" dart with a 1/4" dart. say the power source can generate 100 psi. meaning 1" will be acted upon by a pressure of 100 pounds. take 1/4" and itll have 25 pounds.... i cant work your post out zanx, but i never learnt physics, did i..... correct me.
Zanx Frequent Poster	posted March 10, 2000 07:34 AM You�re wrong. First of all, you are saying that a 1/4" diameter circle has 1/4 the area of a 1� diameter circle. Try using the area formula for a circle. (A=pi*radius squared) Using the formula, you end up with the 1/4" diameter circle having an area of approximately 0.049 square inches, and the area of the 1" diameter circle equaling approximately 0.785 square inches. As you can see, the area of a 1/4" diameter circle is NOT 1/4 of the area of a 1� diameter circle. Secondly, you think that since the area of the 1/4" diameter circle is 1/4 of the 1" diameter one, which it ISN�T, but anyway, you think that it will only receive 1/4 of the pressure. Actually, it will receive approximately 2041 pounds of pressure in all, because it has the same amount of pressure (100 pounds), divided over a smaller area(0.049 square inches). For the 1" diameter circle, the total amount of pounds of pressure acting upon it is only about 127. This shows how much better a smaller diameter dart will work. Sorry if you can�t understand this. You don�t need to take physics to figure it out though.
West Frequent Poster	posted March 10, 2000 09:04 AM Yeh i didnt think that through but the principle stays the same. Im not talking about standing on one foot in soft mud where your theory holds true, im talking about in a blowgun where the pressure is being held by the sides of your cheeks. I could use the example of how a .270 loaded to max pressure with 100gr bullets will shoot faster than a .25/06 at max pressure shooting the same weight bullet. Hasnt someone else got something to say? i cant hold this argument with my limited knowledge.
nbk2000 Moderator	posted March 10, 2000 09:21 AM For the smae pressure (PSI) a larger pipe allows higher velocity. Go to http://www.eadslink.com/vortexfw.htm for a table showing this. I also have a book with a page showing formulas for calculating the velocity of air in pipes. I'll post a scan of it later today. Halving the diameter doubles the resistance, and doubling the air velocity QUADRUPLES the resistance. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them." [This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited March 10, 2000).]
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 10, 2000 03:19 PM Well it is great that you can all back up what you say with math and science FACTS but to really see what works you should try it out. a larger pipe does not work for me 1/2" is much better than 3/4" for me and there is no two shits about it. actual research is much better than what someone else says (even uif they do back it up with math and science. you can use this as a starting point but to really see what works you need to TRY ) ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth

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