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Author	Topic: Acetone peroxide
BaDSeeD Frequent Poster	posted March 15, 2000 04:20 PM Ok guys... lets try and help out the newbies a little here. Lets forget the procedure for a moment, as they are all pretty much the same no matter what your materials are. I just want us to compare "recipes" for what we think gives us the better AP. Now i personally havn't made it enough myself to have my own personal specialty... i always use someone else's. So i'd also like to hear what you guys have to say. Lets keep it simple too. All ya need to post is how much acetone, how much peroxide (and the percentage), how much hydrochloric or sulphuric (and percentage, and what your approximate yeild was. Hope i'm not asking too much. Now side note. Recently i was buying some auto parts... and for the hell of it picked up a box of electrolite. Now this is battery acid for those of you that don't know (sulphuric acid). My question is... does this have any impurities in it that need to be taken care of before it can be used for AP? Does it need to be boiled or anything? I know if ya pour it right out of a battery you'll have to boil it first... but does that apply to fresh electrolite as well? Thanks guys. BaDSeeD ------------------ Knowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.
hunkydunc Frequent Poster	posted March 15, 2000 04:36 PM Hey, do ya reckon eletrolite could be bought in the UK for refilling batteries or do ya reckon its only available in the good old US of A. I'm not dissing America here, don't get me wrong, I'm just fucking jealous that you guys can just walk down to ya local shops and buy stuff of the shelves. I haven't copped much stick of this explosives forum for being a newbie but I have seen people ask rediculous questions and get a load of shit. Anyway, it's nice to see that BaDSeeD is making an effort to help people. So what I was thinking is that you guys should support - well the ones of you who know enough anyway. ------------------ " It is better to burn out than to fade away "
BaDSeeD Frequent Poster	posted March 15, 2000 05:16 PM Thanks Hunkydunc. And as to what ya said about the elecrtolite.. i honestly don't see why you wouldn't be able to get it in the UK. Even if it is difficult to get it, no doubt a mechanic friend would be able to get it for you. Ok.. learning all the time here... upon a little more searching... i found that Sulphuric acid produces the dimmer version of AP, and hydrochloric acid produces the trimmer version. If i'm not mistaken.. i thought i read that the dimmer version is undesirable. Correct me if i'm wrong... couldn't find any info (yet) as to why that might be. I know... some of you will be saying "no shit", but i'm no expert in making AP. I've only made it on a couple occassions, and always used hydrochloric acid. BaDSeeD ------------------ Knowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 15, 2000 06:43 PM NOPE nope nope nope. The types of AP are not brought out by which acid you use. i think i have said it like 8 billion times. the type of acid is not a big deal. it is only used as a catalyst. that is it. hs2o4 and HCl(a) will produce the same AP. What effects the AP is the temp at which the reaction takes place. The colder the better. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! [This message has been edited by Ho ju (edited March 15, 2000).]
BaDSeeD Frequent Poster	posted March 15, 2000 09:00 PM Really.. Well it appears then i have a lousy information source here. Not sure the site i got it from (as i saved the text for later refference), but it must have been from something like an anarchists crapbook or something then. Thanks for correcting me. I assume your information is accurate (i hope). Anyone with thoughts yet on the electrolite? BaDSeeD ------------------ Knowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 15, 2000 09:08 PM look on megas page he will have teh correct stuff. that is where i got my info concerning AP at (all save the acid being a catalyst. i got that from someone else) ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!!
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 15, 2000 10:54 PM "NEW AP file for the beginners" posted by FF is his own recipe and he said it works well and after reading the ratios i would think it does just as well as he contests. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!!
uberchlor unregistered	posted March 16, 2000 01:03 AM I hope this is the only message i have to post about the infamous Acetone peroxide. :-) Here is a preperation given from the book "Chemical demonstrations" vol. 1 of 4 by Bassam Z. Shakhashiri. (on pgs. 46-48) This Chemical demonstrations series is a book for chemistry teachers or chemists, i read them all, and think that the volume one has the most interesting contents, Boom! :-] Preperation: Be extremely cautious in handeling Peroxyacetone...Serious injuries have been reported when this shock-sensitive and extremely flammable compound was prepared, wear gloves while preparing the Peroxyacetone. Add 4ml of Acetone and 4ml of 30% Hydrogen peroxide to a 150mm test tube. Then add 4 drops of concentrated Hydrochloric acid to the mixture. In 10-20 minutes a white solid should begin to form. If no change is observed, warm the test tube in a water bath at 40°C to initiate the reaction. Allow the reaction to continue for 2 hours, swirl the slurry and filter it. Rinse the solid remaining in the test tube onto a filter paper with small portions of distilled water. open the filter paper on a watch glass and allow the peroxyacetone solid to dry for at least 2 hours. To demonstrate its combustion reaction: place the filter paper with the peroxyacetone solid on the base of a ring stand. Light a candle that is tied onto a meter stick and bring it to the solid along a horizontal path. The solid bursts into flame quickly but the filter paper does not burn. The book also explains the mechanics of the chemical reaction, which is pretty interesting. Note how the book is constantly referring to Acetone peroxide (C9H18O6) as Peroxyacetone, they have the same meaning. I would definatley test the shock-sensitivity of this material by exposing small amounts (smaller than 0.3gram) to 2-kilogram falling hammer centimeter drop tests (with ear plugs! and goggles on) and also friction tests, as well as flame, heat, and volatility test before i'd start tampering with this material.
hunkydunc Frequent Poster	posted March 16, 2000 02:10 PM BaDSeeD: I read the same load of shit, about the dimmer and trimmer forms of AP being produced by different acids, from a 'Makeshift Arsenal' download. However, the same download also mentioned using the explosive out of party poppers to detonate stuff. So far I have only used it to initiate BP but could anybody tell me if I could use it to detonate ANNM. Or would I have to place it in a load of AP. Does anybody know what stuff is used in party poppers, I know it must be friction sensitive, but is it a high or low explosive. About the electrolite used to refill car batteries - does it come in a solid or liquid or what? And is it expensive to buy? Would it just be better to empty an old car battery? ------------------ " It is better to burn out than to fade away "
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 16, 2000 03:12 PM thepost about the new ap file is a few threads lower on this one. just look for the thread named what i mentioned above. if you have it set for the last 20 days then you should still see it. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!!
VeHeMT Frequent Poster	posted March 16, 2000 08:58 PM The party poppers contain armstrong mix. And even if armstrong mix could detonate HE's(time to do some testing, haha), the amount in the party poppers is so miniscule that it wouldnt be able to. Maybe he meant to say ignite, instead of detonate. But hey, it might be able to detonate/ignite HE's in the peroxide family. It would be hard to tell whether it is just igniting or if it is actually detonating.
BaDSeeD Frequent Poster	posted March 16, 2000 10:19 PM Hunkydunc About the electrolite: It is sold in liquid form.. i already chucked the reciept, but it wasnt more than 10 bucks. I think its about two liters... actually havnt looked at the amount... but its sold in a plastic bag... kinda like foldable gas cans, and cased in cardboard. As for using a battery... i have no idea if its better... cause no one has answered my post about the electrolite. I don't even know myself if i can use it. ------------------ Knowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.
TROLL unregistered	posted March 17, 2000 03:07 AM I have read all of the information on Acetone Peroxide in the explosive forum and have now made my first acetone peroxide. Using the recomended ratio 8:3:1 (3% h2o2:acetone:hcl) I mixed 70ml 35% h2o2 with 300ml acetone and 100ml 30% hcl. After drying this gave me about 60 grams of Acetone peroxide and it works very vell. I don`t now if this is a good yield, as this is my firs attempt. So if anyone have some idea to get a larger yield?
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 17, 2000 07:18 AM 60 grams! are you sure it was not like 6 or something to that effect. that seams to good to be true. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!!
TROLL unregistered	posted March 17, 2000 08:01 AM 60 grams was what I got and thats a fact! Like i said this was the first time i made it, but can this yield have to do with the fact that I was using 35% h2o2?
qaswed A New Voice	posted March 17, 2000 08:03 AM My favorite ap recipe: 100 ml H2O2 30% 110 ml Acetone 5 ml H2SO4 98% mix the acetone and h2so4. After mixing cool it. Add the H2O2 SLOWLY, while stirring. Keep the temp below 30 degrees C. When all the h2o2 is added let the mixture go overnight at room temp. Incredible yield!!! filter and dry the crystals mix 100 grams ap with 15 grams powderd Al. Dissolve it in thinner with polystyrene. It's much more stable now. det speed 2500-3000 m/s. Strong firecracker is enough to set it off.
Zanx Frequent Poster	posted March 17, 2000 08:07 AM I used 150 ml hydrogen peroxide 12% (40 volume), 100 ml acetone, and 50 ml HCl and I got a yield of 33g. I used the ratio of 9 ml of hydrogen peroxide (100%) to 50 ml of acetone. Mega posted that ratio a while ago. It has worked the best for me. You can adapt it to whatever percentage of hydrogen peroxide you have. For example, 100 ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide contains 3 ml of pure hydrogen peroxide, so you would need 300 ml of it for every 50 ml of acetone. That ends up being a 6:1 ratio.
BaDSeeD Frequent Poster	posted March 17, 2000 01:09 PM Troll did you use an accurate scale when you weighted that?? I agree with Ho Ju ... that sounds like an awefull lot of ap for the amount of ingredients. Anyone know about the electrolite??? If not... well screw it, i'll experiment. ------------------ Knowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.
Foxtrot83 Frequent Poster	posted March 17, 2000 02:34 PM I personally use 400ml 30% h2o2, 300ml acetone, and 20-40ml's of hydrochloric acid. My yield is usually close to 120 grams. I can believe Troll's yield because he was using 32% h202. Everyone I see post say they use 3% or 6%, and I've done that 3% once myself and got a real shitty yield of about 2-3 grams. I used 2 bottles of that 3% and thats all I got, I was angry. I never thought that was possibly from what I usually get, now I'm using 40% h2o2 instead of 30%. If your all wondering where I'm getting these great percentages of Hydrogen Peroxide from, go to your local beauty supply store. I get a big bottle full for only $3.99 plus tax and acetone by the gallon for $8.98. The hydrocl. acid I get from a hardware store for $4.95 for a gallon, actually it says Muriatic Acid, but we all know its the same thing. Anyway try my way and you won't be disappointed, just don't go making an AP factory and get all excited the way I used to when I saw my yield. It can get out of hand and you'll have more AP than you know what to do with. Right now I still have 1kg stored and have nothing to do with it. I'm gonna trying to make AP putty, but I can't get nitrocellulose and I don't have any ping-pong balls w/ an NC or NG content. Can I use something else? Any help would be appreciated. ------------------ ~Foxtrot83~ Semper Fi [This message has been edited by Foxtrot83 (edited March 17, 2000).]
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 17, 2000 03:18 PM you do not NEED NC based products to make your AP putty. just add a little more AP than normal. take like styrofoam and add acetone to it...let it sit in a sealed jar. then add your desired amount of AP. that should work. AP is sensitive enough to use without the NC based ping pong balls or smokeless powder ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!!
uberchlor unregistered	posted March 17, 2000 11:10 PM The probable structure of Peroxyacetone, (1) 2,2-dihydroperoxypropane (C3H8O4) is OOH \| CH3-C-CH3 \| OOH It was first prepared by Milas and Golubovic from a 1:1 mole ratio of Acetone and Hydrogen peroxide solution. This product (1) undergoes spontaneous decomposition to form 2,2'-dihydroperoxy diisopropyl peroxide according to the equation: OOH O \| \| 2 CH3-C-CH3 ---> 2 CH3-C-CH3 + 2HO ---> \| \| OOH OOH CH3 CH3 \| \| CH3-CO--OC-CH3 + H2O + 1/2 O2 \| \| OOH OOH In the presence of hydrogen ions, an excess of Acetone, 2,2-dihydroperoxypropane converts into the cyclic trimer, 1,1,4,4,7,7-hexamethyl-1,4,7-cyclonatriperoxane in the 90% yield. CH3\ /O--O\ /CH3 \ / \ / C C / \| \| \ CH3/ \| \| \CH3 O O \| \| \| \| O\ /O \ / C / \ CH3/ \CH3 Acetone peroxide (C9H18O6)
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 18, 2000 12:04 AM yeah but if 3% works also i say screw finding the 30 and use the readily available 3... just my opinion, i have never found anything other than the three and it pisses me off to no end isn't it funny that if you add a few carbon atoms and a few hydrogen atoms... a normal, calm, everyday glucose molecule (C6H12O6) turns into its bitchy cousin the AP molecule? i think that is cool ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! [This message has been edited by Ho ju (edited March 18, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Ho ju (edited March 18, 2000).]
uberchlor unregistered	posted March 18, 2000 12:54 AM Zanx, when you claimed to have used: 9 ml of hydrogen peroxide (100%) to 50 ml of acetone. I'd imagine that at such a high concentration Hydrogen peroxide will interact explosively with the Acetone, even a solution of 65% H2O2 ignites, or explodes on contact with organic/combustible materials.
Feticidal Fantasy Frequent Poster	posted March 18, 2000 11:10 AM I have two things to say. Whoever claims to have got 60 grams, this is for you. 15 grams of dried AP is about 1/3 of a cup. which means that your 60 grams is 1 1/3 cups. I think 1 1/3 cups is suspicous, but since i have never used 30% i can't say it isn't true, but it sounds like too much. Badseed, about your electrolite. You can buy 93% sulferic acid at any hardware store, i didnt belive it myself but i found it. Even HomeDepot has it. It comes in white plastic bottles, which have been sealed inside a plastic bag. It costs about $10 for a 32 oz. bottle. It is in the drain cleaning section. ------------------ Feticidal Fantasy- http://www.darksites.com/souls/vampires/feticidal/ "Keep your gun as your constant companion."
BaDSeeD Frequent Poster	posted March 18, 2000 11:00 PM Feticidal Fantasy, i don't have a problem finding the prefered source. I was just curious as to whether or not the electrolite i bought would do the job. Like i said... i'll give it a try makeing a smaller amount. I'll let you guys know how it goes. As to the peroxide. I'll be damned if i can find a 30% source. I went to the haircare aisle of a department store locally.. and found about 50 - 60 different brands of hair bleaches. Skipping over all the creams, i started picking up the other packages. I went through about 15 or so of them, and they all had loads of other SHIT in them, perfumes, soaps, etc etc etc. I didnt find ANY that were just peroxide (or peroxide and water actually). They all had loads of other junk. I'm going to ask a friend of mine who is a beautician... where she gets her supplies, and try their shop. ------------------ Knowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.

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