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Author	Topic: Making ANNM?
Foxtrot83 Frequent Poster	posted March 07, 2000 12:34 PM Yesterday, I went to a hobby store and saw 20%, 30%, 35%, and 40% nitromethane (nitro) being sold for model engines. What I was wondering was if these concentrations would be good enough to make ANNM. Also, they all had methanol and an oil mixed with the nitro. Will these mess up the ANNM and make it not work, or is there a way to purify the nitro from these impurities and make the nitro 100% concentrated. I mean if sulfuric acid can be concentrated by boiling why can't nitro. I'm just asking so don't have a cow, I know its a long shot but I'm hoping I'll get lucky. Thanx in advance for all help. ---------------- ~Foxtrot83~ Semper Fi [This message has been edited by Foxtrot83 (edited March 07, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Foxtrot83 (edited March 07, 2000).]
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 07, 2000 02:13 PM i personally owuld not heat nitromethane for fear it would ignite but then again thats just me ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth
uberchlor unregistered	posted March 07, 2000 05:28 PM Yesterday, I went to a hobby store and saw 20%, 30%, 35%, and 40% nitromethane (nitro) being sold for model engines. What I was wondering was if these concentrations would be good enough to make ANNM. Also, they all had methanol and an oil mixed with the nitro. Will these mess up the ANNM and make it not work, or is there a way to purify the nitro from these impurities and make the nitro 100% concentrated. I mean if sulfuric acid can be concentrated by boiling why can't nitro. I'm just asking so don't have a cow, I know its a long shot but I'm hoping I'll get lucky. I bet there is a method of concentrating it since the rest is Methyl alcohol and a small percentage of castor oil, you could start by heating the model engine fuel in a water- or oil bath (with good ventilation since methanol and nitromethane fumes are poisonous!), because the boiling point of methanol is approximatley 64.6 degrees C, and the boiling point of nitromethane is 101.2 degrees C, necessary to keep the oil- or water bath temperature around 64.6 deg. C,(use a thermometer to watch temp.) and not over 100 degrees C and the methanol will boil off, leaving behind nitromethane and traces of castor oil, the critical temperature of nitromethane is 315 degrees C, at this temperature the nitromethane will be very hazardous and will ignite or detonate, so don't think you can should put a flame under the stuff, like when concentrating sulfuric acid. This method sounds resonable, let us know if it works.
uberchlor unregistered	posted March 07, 2000 05:29 PM Be careful, and use small amounts. =.)
uberchlor unregistered	posted March 07, 2000 06:07 PM Also, they all had methanol and an oil mixed with the nitro. Will these mess up the ANNM and make it not work, or is there a way to purify the nitro from these impurities and make the nitro 100% concentrated. --> I doubt the castor oil (what i suspect this oil is) will harm the AN/NM, as a matter of fact it should act like a desensitizer (like it does to many other explosives, where it is used as a additive as a desensitizing agent), i suppose they add the oil to make the fuel mixture have more viscocity (or thickness).
VeHeMT Frequent Poster	posted March 07, 2000 06:15 PM I think the castor oil is mixed with the fuel to lubricate the engines.
HMTD Factory Frequent Poster	posted March 07, 2000 06:57 PM If methanol is the major mix, it could be nitrated into nitromethane, and pour out the nitrating acid, neutralize the product with some sal soda, the resultant clear liquid can be used for explosives(but not for engines anymore).
HMTD Factory Frequent Poster	posted March 07, 2000 07:09 PM Just checked dictionary, said that Nitromethane CH3NO2 is oil-like, and we know that methanol is pretty much like ethanol, mix with water. Still don't know what it means by "oily" but drip some of your NM into water, see if methanol will dissolve out, my two cents. Yeah, remembered, some guy before asked to purify his gasoline-NM mix but water method won't work due to the fact that gasoline can't mix with water, but this time........ [This message has been edited by HMTD Factory (edited March 07, 2000).]
uberchlor unregistered	posted March 08, 2000 02:24 AM HMTD, what do you mean nitrate the methanol? if you nitrated methanol with the mixed acid you could get a dangerous explosion if not cooled with a ice bath and, the resulting compound would be a hazardous explosive; Methyl nitrate, which is more powerful than nitroglycerin, but slightly less powerful than nitroglycol. But maybe there is a way to convert methanol to nitromethane using nitronium ions(in the form of nitrating agents) ???? The dictionary probably means "oil-like" because nitromethane has a oily or syrupy consistency.
uberchlor unregistered	posted March 08, 2000 02:39 AM VeHeMT, that may very well be a good explanation. My thought was that the addition of the oil would help the product pour smoother, and slower.
HMTD Factory Frequent Poster	posted March 08, 2000 05:52 PM Sharp eye, uberchlor! And dang it you find out, I posted a second post after the fisrt one instead of just editing it beacuse of that, the result is CH3NO3 instead of CH3NO2, but I didn't amend that post, yet you find out.(Ah, they are explosives anyway.) I'll look up and see if there's a way to deal with the OH in CH3OH or other way to purify. [This message has been edited by HMTD Factory (edited March 11, 2000).]
nbk2000 Moderator	posted March 08, 2000 07:14 PM The methanol can be removed by simple distillation. The castor oil has no effect of the AN or the resulting ANNM. If you really want to remove the castor oil, why not try bubbling hydrogen gas through the castor oil/NM solution? Hydrogen solidifies most oils, like vegetable oil into margarine. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."
HMTD Factory Frequent Poster	posted March 09, 2000 03:10 AM Hydrogenation will need a catalyst to occur.
nbk2000 Moderator	posted March 09, 2000 04:29 AM You don't need a catalyst for this. You need them for speed or efficiency, but not for simply causing a seperation of the oil. Just warming it while passing in the gas is enough. Doesn't have to be hardened into crisco, just enough to cause an increse in viscosity that allows a seperation. But it may emuslify too so you may be SOL. But there really is no need to seperate the oil from the NM since it's only a couple of percent of the total volume and doesn't interefere with the explosion. Why you can use soybean oil instead of diesel for ANFO. (see "ANSOY" post). ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 09, 2000 07:19 AM how sensative is the ANSOY? does it even begin to compare with ANNM or even ANFO for that matter? ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth
Feticidal Fantasy Frequent Poster	posted March 09, 2000 04:34 PM Is it true that ANNM has a short shelf life? For example, If you made a batch and waited a few days before detonating it, would it still work? If so, How long is the shelf life? And is it because the AN gets too saturated with water to det., or becasue the NM evaporates off? Thanks. ------------------ Feticidal Fantasy- http://www.darksites.com/souls/vampires/feticidal/ "Keep your gun as your constant companion."
nbk2000 Moderator	posted March 09, 2000 06:32 PM ANSOY is equal, or even superior, to ANFO. Follow the link in the post for full details. It's a big article. It's not as powerful as ANNM though, only ANFO. From what I've read, the thing that limits the storage life of ANNM is the tendency of AN to absorb water and the NM to evaporate. If you can keep the mix completely sealed to prevent any water absorbtion or evaporation the it should keep for quite a while. Of course it's never a good idea to store finished explosives for longer than absolutely necessary. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."
HMTD Factory Frequent Poster	posted March 10, 2000 01:31 AM Yes you need a catalyst.(don't want to believe?) Even if the castor oil is hydrogenated, it doens't gather up to form a block, it will rather dissolve into methanol again.
nbk2000 Moderator	posted March 10, 2000 02:14 AM At it again, huh HMTD? I researched the net and catalysts aren't always needed. If your trying to run a factory then you need a catalyst. For thickening up some oil in a flask you don't. And since you've done so much research on the subject, why don't you suggest something he can use as a catalyst? And if you read my first post you'll see that I said to distill off the methanol, so unless the hydrogenatred oil dissolves or emulsifies (as mentioned in my other post) in NM, it won't be a problem. It doesn't need to be solid like a block of butter. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 10, 2000 03:26 PM hmtd do you even know what a catalyst does? and i would appreciate it if you did not look it up or ask someone. did you know what it was when you posted your post to contradict NBK? (i am not taking any sides, just wondering) one more question, do you post aimless posts just to try and prove people (mainly nbk wrong) (once again not taking sides i just want to know) it seams you try and put him down or make him look wrong just so you can be right... please try and work with people and not against them ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth
VeHeMT Frequent Poster	posted March 10, 2000 06:41 PM I think he knows what a catalyst is.
Feticidal Fantasy Frequent Poster	posted March 11, 2000 09:47 AM Ho ju, you shouldn't be such a dick. Conflict is a part of every group. It is good that HTMD is agrumentive because when he goes against what someone else tells him, it makes that person do more research. And then the rest of us will get more information. Besides, If you are always such a dick you might piss off some people that will leave and never come back, and those people could of been geniuses and helpful for our forum. If we all thought alike we would all make the same mistakes and no one would be there to tell us different. An adversary system is good. Ho ju, I will make an example for you. The criminal justice system, the criminal justice system. A trial is a defense attorney agaist the prosecution. They both argue back and forth, using facts and research. They argue until they reach the thruth. If you want the true facts about HTMD I think it would be helpful to let them argue so that they will do more reseach and find the thruth. If someone just blurts out a post, and everyone goes yep yep yep then the forum will die. ------------------ Feticidal Fantasy- http://www.darksites.com/souls/vampires/feticidal/ "Keep your gun as your constant companion."
nbk2000 Moderator	posted March 11, 2000 10:23 AM I'll tell you my opinion on that idea. Imagine a room with david letterman (or don rickles), and every time you walk in, your the subject of his heckling. How many times would you keep coming back to that room knowing that your going to get hassled every time? There's a difference between constructive disagreement and just being fucked with. Every time I post something HMTD comes along and says "Your wrong" in a 1 or 2 sentence post. I then refute that statement with quotations from the disputed article or links to outside sources and then he takes whatever I've said, puts some wordplay on it, and feeds it back as "his" facts when he's simple restating what I've already said. Repeat cycle, ad nauseam. And what has he done? He posts in the forum and that's about it from what I can tell. No website listed(I don't have one either at the moment, but then I've had one, quite large too.), never posted a picture of anything that he's made (has he made anything?), hasn't posted any files or programs for others to download, and sure the fuck never bothered to archive the forums. Did I miss anything? If I was really pissed about it I'd put it to a vote for all the established forum members (frequent posters, no newbies): Who stays and who gets booted from the forum? I'd abide by the vote. After all, the community has final say over who belongs and who should be exiled, shunned, cast out, etc. What do you say HMTD, want to put it to the vote? Your decision. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."
Pyroboy Frequent Poster	posted March 11, 2000 10:55 AM I think thats a good idea NBK. Just thought I should add my bit
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 11, 2000 02:48 PM When you mix the ANSoy what ratios should you use? should you use the same amount of Soy as you would fuel oil? or do you need more or less? I do NOT think there should be a vote. it would just create a rift and the result would be various factions and nothing would get accomplished. i was just curious at HMTD's motives that is all. FF has a good point but i just think HMTD takes it a little too far. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! [This message has been edited by Ho ju (edited March 11, 2000).]

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