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Author	Topic: explosives anti-detection measures
m3nth Frequent Poster	posted February 25, 2000 01:42 PM i've been doing some reading on explosives detection and basically what i have come to understand is that detection is based solely on smell or odor. in schools or large massive public places canines are used for their superior nose (and friendliness )... for example one site says their trained canines can detect "ANY odor associated with explosives -- INCLUDING C-4, Semtex, Anfo, ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel." in high security or government facilities the things that check for bombs are called what... bomb sniffers right? you stand in a gate like a metal detector, it blows air around you to the other side and then sniffs for traces of explosives. so with that information in mind... i am not too sure of the chemistry behind it but how could you get around sniffers? whether they be canine or mechanical... obviously the device needs to be completely sealed but how could you make sure that there were no traces detectable. say you got a pipe bomb or somethin lame like that. or say you have a pipe filled with bp and capped at both ends so it is completely sealed... how can you be completely sure that a sniffer won't catch you? if you left it to soak in bleach, vinegar or hcl or somethin for a week or two (assuming you don't eat through the metal) would this destroy the scent that the dogs could smell? or can they smell through the pipe... kinda dumb question but it makes you wonder... if it came down to having one chance to get past security or to get busted, this would be extremely important. i had a squirrel once. a really dead squirrel. i put it in double ziplock airtight plastic bags and you know what... after a week it stunk so bad it was enough to about make you puke and the bags were still airtight and sealed. now maybe that was just a freak accident and the bags were really leaking air and i didn't know, but if smell can go through stuff how can you get rid of it? and if you did get rid of it using something strong, how do you transport this item without smelling rank a mile away? you can walk right into an airport with enough explosives to do major damage but you would never make it if they had a canine unit. and by explosives i just mean the explosives, not the metal you would need to go along with it like pipes nails or other potential shrapnel objects. so i pose these questions for thought... how would you prepare an explosive device or substance you would have on your person to keep from getting busted by a canine or bomb sniffer that is sniffing you from less than one foot away? in the most likely presence of security gaurds, they won't rape you trying to find something unless they get a signal from the dog or machine, so i mean, you could have a reasonable sized container hidden on your person in places they won't go... but, if you get sniffed and something aint right, they'll either stop you from going where you're going or do a full body search till they figure out what is wrong. either way your plans are ruined. the idea behind all of this would be to accumulate... by taking small amounts of explosive past detection units on your person these could be stashed inside a facility so a device of larger scale could be reassembled past security checkpoints. any thoughts? ideas? chemical knowledge of how to get rid of smell or how to contain it? ~m3nth~
HMTD Factory Frequent Poster	posted February 25, 2000 03:04 PM There is a kind of cloth that is used to make hunter suits, it has a layer of active carbon to absorbs body odor and prevents the game from detecting the hunter's presence. It can be seen on hunter accessory ads. or gun ads. Use the cloth to CONCEAL it...will success if done right. That is only for canine and molecule detectors, there are machines that can detect the spectrum emissions of inorganic oxidizers and organic nitrocompounds, use lead box. HF
Dr-D Frequent Poster	posted February 25, 2000 04:12 PM Our school has had 8 or more bomb threats called in this year, it's almost a weekly thing. The school didn't take the first ones last year seirously or these. And they got in trouble with the fire dept for locking us inside assemblies. Now all the doors are locked, there are doors in the middle of the hallways and security cameras now but as they said they are not for "survalence"... so what are they for? entertainment? They sweep the whole school in an hour and a half with nitrate sniffing dogs. It would be fun to mess with them by spreading some AN paste on hollow walls, computers, cardboard boxes and anything else they would have to tear into. The dogs would go nuts and they would have to open up the thing and check it out. The dogs go nuts in art rooms with all the solvents too, so that is something they detect. As for plastic bags, the molecoules have to big of spaces between them to keep smells in. If you were a mad bomber, then maybe you could use sugar+chlorate initiated by some AP or HMTD. I'm not sure if the dogs would detect the chlorate or the peroxides, maybe, maybe not. If you knew exactly what they were trained for and if peroxides,etc would interest the dogs or not then you could work from there. As for sealing it, you might be able to use metal with a good sealent around the edges...
Nunchaku Frequent Poster	posted February 27, 2000 09:37 PM semtex is more dificult to detect by trained dogs. the smell of the nitrate is killed by the vegetable oil in the semtex. special police dogs specially at airports are trained to smell nitrate compound. airplane terrorists, will certainly used semtex and they used it. the main disadvantage is that the oil tend to go out off the explosive when it is exposed to a temperature of more than 25 degrees celcius. semtex is also less brisant than c-4. what are your opinion about these facts? please if you have a different view about it, please post a message here. thanks.
nbk2000 Moderator	posted February 29, 2000 08:38 PM If someone was seriously intent on blowing something up and had to get the explosives past dogs and sniffer machines, then I would suggest using glass test tubes with the explosive inside and the glass heat sealed to be totally air-tight, and washing the outside of the tube with chromic acid solution to completely remove all traces of explosives. Then lube it up, stick it up your ass, walk through security, and take it out in the bathroom. A person could get a quarter pound each trip easily. A woman a 1/2 pound. Do as many trips as needed to get enough in to do the job. You could stick them in your pocket, but the government has those radar reflectance machines that can see through clothing installed at nuke plants and some airports. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."
Ho ju Moderator	posted February 29, 2000 10:06 PM yeah but would any of you guys go to those lengths to blow up a building? OUCH! ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth
Predator Frequent Poster	posted March 01, 2000 05:21 AM Eh put the explosives in the middle of a fully packed suitcase. You think the x-ray machine can see these? haha are you mistaken I've tested the detection methods of about 4 countries airports, and they are suprisingly appaling in terms of security. For example, I snook back approximately �20K's worth of pirated software, in nothing more hightech then my suitcase. you see, once I was around the other side of the machine, and I noticed that the machine could only scan through the first layer of material, ie, the suitcase shell. On the screen they just had a picture of the clothes inside, as if the suitcase was transparent. They cannot, however, see inside the bundle of clothes. I used this to my advantage and put all my pirated software between the top and bottom halves of the suitcase, slipped the suitcase through the so called 'x-ray' machines of 4 different countries and not a single one detected it. But, a note of warning here, don't try to sneak anything metal through... those machines actually have metal detecting capabilites. I left one of those bank bags filled with 5p pieces in it and the machine much to my suprise made a loud 'BEEP'. This is where I found the security appaling: The woman operating the machine says "Do you have any coins in your bag?" I just said "yes I got a little bag of it there" and she just says "ok so" and lets me through! What the Fuck? I could have had a handgun hidden inside a hollowed out book for all she knew! Questionable skills those people. I also noticed they don't pay much attention to clothing. everytime I walk through the metal detectors the alarm always goes off, because I wear steel toe capped boots. Everytime so far, I was searched, I said it was my steel toe cap boots, and he runs the metal detector over my body.. come to the shoes and Beep without fail. Then he just says "ok so". WHAT THE FUCK?? I could have had parts of a gun stored in the soles of my shoes for all they know! Or a knife. Kind of like how james bond had a radio in the sole of his shoe My advice... hide it in the middle of your suitcase, you can't go far wrong Just keep it discreet and don't make it look suspicious.
Pyroboy Frequent Poster	posted March 01, 2000 08:01 AM Predator, what 4 countries were they?
Predator Frequent Poster	posted March 01, 2000 08:26 AM Ireland, Britain, France, and Hong Kong. Advanced countries, lame detection methods
nbk2000 Moderator	posted March 01, 2000 03:45 PM If your trying to get explosives into a court house you're not going to be able to use a bag full of clothing to sneak it in. And I don't know what kind of x-ray machines they're using in europe but they sound pretty lame. The x-ray machines I see in the local airport not only see through everything but they even color code the different materials of the stuff inside. Metal is red, etc. Same thing at the court house. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 01, 2000 04:24 PM yes the security here in the US is much more harsh than the way you described it. the airports i have been to all make metal show up green in the little baggage scanner and when you beep i have never seen someone get by with just a run over with the handheld detector in the area they described. Americans are much more careful about this sort of thing that is why there are very few high jacked planes here and the rest of the world is open game. one word of caution to people reading this. do not try to smuggle anything that will get you fucked until you test it out. all places are different! ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth [This message has been edited by Ho ju (edited March 01, 2000).]
Predator Frequent Poster	posted March 01, 2000 05:48 PM hmm colour coding.. The screen of the one I saw was only a errie glow of green and black. But there probably wasn't any colour on the screen because I only had clothes and plastic cd's in the suitcase :/ Can they vary the depth of the x-ray over in America or is it only limited to first-layer-only as well? [Edited out spelling mistakes -damn cold fingers] [This message has been edited by Predator (edited March 01, 2000).]
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 01, 2000 08:06 PM well i do not believe they very the depth they always make it go all the way through the bag. one example of this is people are paranoid that putting there laptop through an xray machine will ruin it (which it shouldn't) but it is still a concern because the x rays penetrate all the way through the bag it is in and into (or onto) the lap top which, if you have ever seen a lap top case, is several layers thick on one side. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth
VeHeMT Frequent Poster	posted March 02, 2000 12:11 AM Well, from experience, the Canadian and Italian machines did have the different colour X-ray machines. In the Italian airports they had guards armed with SMG's (was long time ago, was young, cant remember exactly) walking around. I believe the x-ray machines can see through multiple layers to a certain extent. This was a little over 5 years ago. Pred, how long ago did you try that?
HMTD Factory Frequent Poster	posted March 02, 2000 04:48 AM Seriously, my KClO3 and my replica gun are all "imported" via airplane, through airport.
Predator Frequent Poster	posted March 02, 2000 05:55 AM I must have tried that a little under 3 years ago... Things haven't changed all that much. oh... one more point to note: the clothes in my suitcase were packed in pretty tight, really dense packing job to ensure no detection
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 02, 2000 05:09 PM well it doesn't matter how tight you pack your close around an object. if the object would be sensed by a metal detector without it being wrapped clothes will no help. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth
Predator Frequent Poster	posted March 02, 2000 05:39 PM No no you misunderstand, I was talking about plastic cd's in my suitcase between the clothes, not anything metal
Ho ju Moderator	posted March 02, 2000 06:55 PM oh oh oh i see so the clothes were a deterant to eye sight not metal detectors. my bad. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth
Predator Frequent Poster	posted March 03, 2000 07:19 AM The clothes were a deterent to the plastic in my suitcase, there wasn't any metal
newbie1 Frequent Poster	posted March 03, 2000 03:01 PM this topic reminds me of a article i read a couple months ago about a lady who went to the airport. Her son-in-law, which hated her very much pulled a little prank. He had coated a dildo in multiple layers of aluminuim to about the thickness off a baseball and placed it in her suitcase . When it went threw the machine of coarse the alarm went off, when the officer unraveled the foil, from what i remember her returned it promptly and apologized.
m3nth Frequent Poster	posted March 04, 2000 12:54 AM also in the US you may pack your bag so thick full of crap they can't see it and you know what they will do? they flip on the high power beam. then you know what they do if they still can't see through it or they're not sure about it? you get pulled off to the side and they go through your bag item by item. been there done that... not too fun and don't think you will get anything remotely suspicious past them. ~m3nth~
Predator Frequent Poster	posted March 04, 2000 07:41 AM hmmm well maybe not in some of the strictest parts of the US, but most certainly Britain and general europe. There was a news report here recently about a group of airport inspectors that tested a airport here in Britain, and all of the inspectors, bar one, managed to sneak guns, knives, and explosives (semtex) onto the plane sucessfully. They managed to get into the plane and have a seat, then they got back up, went to the inspection point, showed their id and started giving them a boliking for being so bad with security :/ I guess I just look innocent though.... I get searched when my boots make the machine go off, but all they do is a quick pat down and let me go, even though the hand held thing still makes beeping noises. They don't even give the suitcase a second glance :/
NickAndros unregistered	posted March 05, 2000 01:00 PM Are you crazy?? It must have been a while since you went to Britain. I was in transfer to another country and the plane made a stop at Heathrow airport. Not only do they have very advanced x-rays and doublecheck you (i had already been checked at LAX), i went trough without a single suspicious thing, and they still searched me thourougly.. there is one flaw at Heathrow however. I put my wallet in a glass bowl next to the metal detector, and they did no effort to search it. I could have carried a small .22 pistol in there hehe.... But beware of britain, their guards all patrol with Mp5's and look like they are about to go into combat... it's fucking crazy...
Predator Frequent Poster	posted March 05, 2000 01:08 PM NickAndros: What the fuck? Er... I happen to live in Britain, and use all the major airports at least once a year, if not twice. I know the procedures carried out. Been there done that. There are certainly lax when it comes to checkign stuff... but maybe I just look innocent I can't say i've ever seen the guards patroling with MP5's ever though But in HK they carried sub machine guns, not sure which type, but they looked vicious and some also had bandoliers! and on top of all that a small 9mm 1911 sidearm :/ Feck

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