Archive: rust - The Explosives and Weapons Forum

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rust

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Author	Topic: rust
m3nth Frequent Poster	posted January 29, 2000 10:48 PM good grief, i just hooked up a power supply to two nails and am watching them rust away at an incredible rate. my question is... the water is boiling it is getting so hot and the fumes are almost sweet smelling which i would assume aren't toxic but are they? and also in relation... the water in the jar is boiling hot and i am wondering if it is safe to boil water in a glass jar for extended periods of time. i was also thinking of boiling off the remaining water so the crud was left in the bottom but i don't know how safe this is... if the jar will break or something. it's an apple juice gallon jar by the way but i could get canning jars or whatever, i don't think there's much difference. i would assume this would be in some lab safety manual somewhere but i think it is alright for the moment... if anyone knows this to not be true however PLEASE LET ME KNOW. i would NOT enjoy hot nasty water all over the place because the jar broke. thanks if anyone knows about the glass jars or the fumes... ~m3nth~
Ho ju Moderator	posted January 29, 2000 10:57 PM i doubt boiling water will do it if you do not just add the boiling water to a cold glass jar. if you just do it the way you do you should not have any problems. BUT never try to heat glass on a stove or anything like that that is not pyrex. that will fuck the glass up and break it. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth
HMTD Factory Frequent Poster	posted January 30, 2000 07:19 AM m3nth, you have to tell what you were trying to do and what's in the water.
m3nth Frequent Poster	posted January 30, 2000 08:51 AM i posted everything in my initial post except what i thought would be obvious. regular water with two nails and a power supply hooked up. that's it. no chemicals. just taking a shot at iron oxide generation--rust, as the topic is titled. the setup generated an extreme amount of crap that fell to the bottom of the jar. i was hoping it would filter off but none of it did when i tried using a tshirt. i had both nails in the water... one bubbling hydrogen i would assume and one reacting with the oxygen to make all the crap that fell to the bottom. i'm not sure why none of it would filter off though, there was a lot of stuff in the jar after a while. anyone tried to make rust this way? seems i have missed something somewhere. ~m3nth~
Predator Frequent Poster	posted January 30, 2000 09:02 AM Hmmm I heat stuff in plain glass jars anymore, last time I did, it put such a thermal loading on the jar when I placed it on a cold counter top gently that the jar literally just er.. fell in half :/ it was kind of funny actually but messy nevertheless If you want to heat stuff up in jars, M3nth, see if you can get your hands on any Pyrex jars... they are oftenn used in ovenware as they can take the heat... and I think they are designed so that you can heat them up, then put them in icy cold water and they won't shatter due to particle bits imbedded in the glass structure stopping the cracks from spreading. hee we replied at nearly the same time [This message has been edited by Predator (edited January 30, 2000).]
VeHeMT Frequent Poster	posted January 30, 2000 02:28 PM Use a coffee filter to filter the rust out. It will look like there is a lot in there in the jar, but really its just a very "puffy" light cloud of particles. It takes damn near forever to filter and youll only get a few grams of rust. It takes forever because the VERY fine rust particles clog the filter paper. Id suggest letting it all settle to the bottom and decanter as much water as possible before filtration. [This message has been edited by VeHeMT (edited January 30, 2000).]
m3nth Frequent Poster	posted January 30, 2000 03:59 PM yeah the filtering thing... that's why i was just wondering about boiling the water off completely as in distillation to leave all the crap on the bottom. i will look into pyrex. ~m3nth~
VeHeMT Frequent Poster	posted January 30, 2000 07:07 PM Boiling off all the water would be a bigger waste of time and energy then filtering it.
HMTD Factory Frequent Poster	posted January 30, 2000 08:18 PM I didn't get your idea cuz I didn't know you will electrolyze just for rust, and without anything in water.(At least put citric acid in it.) If the "rust" in the water is puffy and gelatinous then it probably contain iron hydroxide, somehow you need to oxidize it again, by dry heating the remainings(with citric acid) or pour hydrogen peroxide wet or dry(with nothing) [This message has been edited by HMTD Factory (edited January 30, 2000).]
catch22 Frequent Poster	posted January 30, 2000 09:17 PM I would assume the gasses formed would be hydrogen, because you are removing the oxygen from the water. It would be a good idea to if you haven't done it yet, take it outside. Catch 22
m3nth Frequent Poster	posted January 30, 2000 10:11 PM HMTD factory i don't have citric acid first of all and i'm not sure about the "rust" being puffy or gelatinous cause nothing filtered off in the first place so it was all disolved in the water apparently. or a tshirt wasn't a good enough filter. the second paragraph of your post didn't make too much sense to me, i thought the point of using nails was to make it rust by reaction of oxygen with the iron... why would you add citric acid or h2o2 afterwards? catch22 i can't exactly take this outside and besides i am only running an amp through the device, not ten or something. i already tried lighting it on fire not to worry it did nothing as i almost expected. it would take running 1 amp almost 9 hours to produce two litres of gas at room temperature and pressure. being dispersed of course means practically no danger from hydrogen gas ignition. also about distillation over filtering... if i had lots of time (which i do) and lots of free electricity (which i do) then who cares if i distill it. it is a 100% sure way of keeping all the crap that won't boil off as compared to using a crappy filter or having to buy stuff i don't need to buy. ~m3nth~
Ho ju Moderator	posted January 30, 2000 10:53 PM what type of power source are you using? are you using ac or dc current? ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! http://members.xoom.com/Splynncryth [This message has been edited by Ho ju (edited January 30, 2000).]
VeHeMT Frequent Poster	posted January 31, 2000 12:01 AM I believe HTMD Factory said to add citric acid to increase the conductivity of the water.
m3nth Frequent Poster	posted January 31, 2000 12:22 AM oh well if the citric acid is just to make the water conductive i don't need it then. i didn't think it was necessary for a reaction. water has enough crap to conduct and even distilled water would work although not so fast. ho ju i am using a homemade power supply that provides unregulated dc. basically wall ac ran through four diodes (full wave rectifier) to make pulsed dc. that is part of the reason the water heats up and boils because the amps (1-1.5amps) are rms amps w/ 170vdc peaks so peak current is pretty high which causes heating. the high voltage is also why i don't need to add acid or salt or other impurities to make the water conduct well. ~m3nth~
HMTD Factory Frequent Poster	posted February 01, 2000 07:02 AM Very little acidity(H+) can help the oxidation of iron occur, acetic acid work well but has odor, and by adding some H2O2 afterward is to oxidize iron hydroxides like Fe(OH)2 and Fe(OH)3, by burning remaining is to oxidize organic iron salts into iron oxide if you don't like the idea then that's still fine, after all making iron rust ain't no rocket science.

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