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Author	Topic: Newspaper Smoke Bombs
nbk2000 Moderator	posted January 05, 2000 06:37 AM I found these pictures on a site and recognized them from the makeshift arsenal. Has anyone here made these before? Did they work well for you? I have some ideas on how these can be improved. There's no way these things can produce as much smoke as a commercial smoke grenade, but since they're so cheap to make, you can make up for that defect by sheer numbers. To get an immediate cloud of smoke while the main part is still igniting, you could take a number of small tubes and pack them into the opening of the big one. These will burn much faster producing a quantity of smoke in a few seconds by which time the main charge is producing smoke. Also, while the paper is being rolled, you can pour ammonium chloride so there is a thin layer betweeen the layers of nitrated paper. NH4CL2 is the main smoke producing chemical in a lot of pyrotechnic formulations. You don't want to dissolve it into the paper with the AN since the chloride is used as a fire retardant. It would stop the combustion. But in physical contact with a burning object, it gives of white smoke. Any other suggestions? ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them." www.50megs.com/nbk2000 [This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited January 05, 2000).]
HMTD Factory Frequent Poster	posted January 05, 2000 05:26 PM How'd the original paper tube sustain burning(nitrated cellulose?) Might blend the NH4Cl with smokeless powder so it can vaporize quicker.
Y2KILL Frequent Poster	posted January 05, 2000 05:36 PM You really know your stuff, it is indeed from makeshift arsenal. Good stuff to read, and easy to do with detailed instructions, etc. This harmless bomb is made with simple newspaper and ammonium nitrate. Since you are such an expert in this field. Do you know where I can purchase some ammonium nitrate? Or, what household product is made with that material other than fertilizers. Cause sometimes, I believe fertilizer manufactures mix shit, mud, and other stuff in the bag...
DaRkDwArF Frequent Poster	posted January 05, 2000 06:56 PM thats why you give them the code number, but you can't always trust that, my dad once ordered a bag of fertilizer by code and and most companies treat them, and bind them to a crystal like solid that when wet changes to a gel =( all of this will help if you want to grow a garden but I don't know about smoke, bangs and flashes
darcey Frequent Poster	posted January 05, 2000 07:19 PM Y2KILL....You can get about 1 to 1 1/2 cups of pure prilled ammonium nitrate from cold packs you buy from chemists or drug stores (what ever you call them in US). They are small instant ice packs which contain a pocket of ammonium nitrate in side a pocket of water. You break the ammonium nitrate pocket to make them cold. Try them, i got about 5 and made a ANFO bomb and they worked so they would be fine for these smoke bombs. These little pricks cost about $5 AUS each so its much cheaper to buy a 50kg sack of pure ammonium nitrate for about $30.
nbk2000 Moderator	posted January 05, 2000 07:28 PM Y2KILL: asking me where to buy it when I don't even know what country your in is a pointless question. Try a farm supplier or garden shop. And I covered how to purify and powder in another post. Look for it. Darkdwarf: I've never heard of a gelling coating on the prills. Maybe a selective solvent extraction would be needed. Experiment with methanol, water, rubbing alcohol, kerosene, etc. Something will dissolve one and not the other. darcy: Believe it or not, where I'm at it seems impossible to find a cold pack. I know they're around, just haven't been able to find any. I'm waiting till after I've moved to buy the bulk AN sack. The one time I did see it, it was about $2.50 US. So your getting ripped. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them." www.50megs.com/nbk2000
Blaze Frequent Poster	posted January 06, 2000 03:14 AM As the pictures show, yes they work pretty darn well.. however there is a perfect mixture ratio of AN to water used for soaking, some times you can get a batch that create a lot of jet flame but not as much smoke. You can mix PN into the AN to get a much faster smokecloud but than it must be contained within a tin can.. also the smoke is more of a grey colour with PN added instead of the pretty white stuff for pure AN.. also of note is that when confined in an area the pure AN ones create stinking yellow smoke .... what is that stuff??
nbk2000 Moderator	posted January 06, 2000 06:00 PM I was thinking that it should be possible to make smoke grenades that can be launched from the homemade grenade launcher. But without needing a 40mm casing. Instead, a shotgun shell is contained inside a short nipple of 3/4" size attached to a washer of appropriate size (ala mortar on my site). The paper is attached to the washer by a length of hollow tubing. The shotshell is fired, the gases propel the whole assembly out, and the flame from the shell ignites the paper from the inside (hollow tube is drilled of course.) "also of note is that when confined in an area the pure AN ones create stinking yellow smoke .... what is that stuff??". It maybe that the heat of combustion in a closed container (I'm assuming you meant a can (area)) is decomposing the nitrate like this; nitrate -> nitrous oxide (laughing gas) -> nitric oxides (NOx). The nitric oxides are yellow and brown gases. That's what gives smog it's color. And it's stink. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them." www.50megs.com/nbk2000
Blaze Frequent Poster	posted January 07, 2000 02:18 AM by "area" i meant a room etc. the smoke, once it has filled the area will react into the mustard coloured smog, leaving oily yellow/brown residue..
Dr-D Frequent Poster	posted January 07, 2000 03:27 PM I do belive the residue is from the paper. Since the AN newspaper smoke bomb makes smoke and doesn't burn up realy fast and clean the paper isn't being used up. For example, ciggarettes leave an oily yellow residue in the filters, this is from the tobacco leaves burning/smoldering slowly instead of in a full flame. Same goes for the newspaper I figure, it may burn faster than a cig, but it isn't in a full flame so its not getting burnt completly (which is why it smokes) and this is where the yellow oily crap is comming from. Same thing will happen with any cellulose like cotton. BTW, any way to get cotton fibers into a small powder granlues? if you spread out a cotton ball very thinly and light it, it burns almost as fast as NitroCellulose in an open area.
VeHeMT Frequent Poster	posted January 08, 2000 04:56 PM Nbk2000, another idea I've got would be to use a 10" length of the drain pipe as explained in the reloading text provided by dlwdaw from Ragnar Benson's book. The pipe is filled with a honeycomb like structure of newspaper rolled into smaller tubes. Then holes can be drilled into the pipe. The ends can be sealed just like Ragnar says, and fused just like he says, with a small charge of sugar/chlorate wrapped in tape or paper attached to the fuse on the inside of the pipe. The sugar/chlorate charge is to ensure that the newspaper smoke rolls ignite.
nbk2000 Moderator	posted January 08, 2000 05:53 PM That would probably work. The number of tubes in the casing determines how fast the smoke is generated, but there's a trade off. More tubes, quicker but less smoke. Less tubes, more but slower smoke. Just have to make that decision for yourself. White Phosphorus would be perfect. I found a process for making it from bone ash, but it's kind of tedious. Haven't tried it yet. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them." www.50megs.com/nbk2000
VeHeMT Frequent Poster	posted January 08, 2000 07:37 PM Could you post that process somewhere on the messageboard?
Ho ju Moderator	posted January 09, 2000 12:10 PM i have made these things once. (i took newspaper and dipped it in a super saturated solution of Ammonium nitrate and water until the newspaper was soaking wet, then i left it to dry over night) it didn't look half as impressive. i do not know if i did it wrong ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!!
Dr-D Frequent Poster	posted January 09, 2000 01:50 PM Ho Ju, it was probably too saturated with AN and resulted in it burning up fast without a lot of smoke. Reduce the saturation and it should smoke slower/more.
Blaze Frequent Poster	posted January 09, 2000 07:55 PM could you not use the pvc pipe, with the back cap glued on and the front just pushed on, that way with the build in pressure the cap would pop off providing the instant smoke you want. also i think one large hole for the smoke to escape is probably better than a lot of small holes..
VeHeMT Frequent Poster	posted January 09, 2000 09:37 PM It all depends on preference and how your going to use them.
Fjp92 Frequent Poster	posted January 09, 2000 11:26 PM NBK2000 dont you know of any poison that that can be sprayed on the news paper that will be vaporised as the thing burn so that one can use it as a smoke,gas bomb all in one??
nbk2000 Moderator	posted January 10, 2000 12:26 AM Cadmium metal is useful for that. Also, there are insecticide powders that are meant to be vaporized by heat that could possibly be used. The more toxic the better. Sulfur is cheap and rather noxious. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them." www.50megs.com/nbk2000
m3nth Frequent Poster	posted January 10, 2000 06:17 PM Ho Ju i have seen several of these go off today and yesterday. mixing the AN prills with too much water means almost nothing happens. what works best i think is putting the prills in a container and barely covering them with water, then mix it and you still may have some chunks left over but that's ok cause most will disolve into the water. then fold up the newspaper till it's the size of your fist and soak it while agitating the water so it soaks through faster. when it's soaked through take the wad of newspaper out and unfold to dry. a quick-cold pack from kmart ($1.80/pack) can do about ten (non-folding) sheets of newspaper(maybe more). with a fan you can dry them in less than 30 minutes. the ones i saw go off worked like a charm... much as the pictures depict. if you put too much water in the newspapers won't have enough AN residue left on them. after they dry you should be able to touch them and feel a nasty kinda residue (AN white powder stuff) on your fingers... the papers are also slightly hard. hope this helps... ~m3nth~ I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw me. The sheep are lying!
Ho ju Moderator	posted January 10, 2000 08:04 PM yeah the ones i made were kinda hard and they had a filmy resedue all over them but they didn't work. i will try using little watter next time i do it. ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!!
poison Frequent Poster	posted January 10, 2000 10:53 PM The smoke bombs work alright ive made them a while back maybe a year or more and the only advantage is there cheap I would only use them for farting around with. I much prefer the comercial smoke bombs such as "mammoth" or what ever the name is. The AN news papers are hard to light while running unless you have a mini blow torch or a wind proof lighter. But mixing in some acetone, and some sulfer the acetone seemed to make it dry faster and the sulfer seemed to give it some what more smoke. -Poison
Fjp92 Frequent Poster	posted January 11, 2000 11:45 PM Yesterday i shot one of these smoke bombs out of a pipe. It looked pretty cool although it moved a bit slow, One could see it go through the air and it only went about 80 meters. Bud luckely the thing ignited proparly. I think it sould be real easy to make good gun that will soot these nicely.
nbk2000 Moderator	posted January 12, 2000 06:45 AM What did you shot it out of the pipe with? A shotgun shell or a bundle of black powder? ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them." www.50megs.com/nbk2000
BaDSeeD Frequent Poster	posted January 12, 2000 12:01 PM If anyone is looking for a source of ammonium nitrate but dosnt want to go through the trouble making it. A good source for this is instant cold packs. I can't say that all varieties and manufactures of cold packs use the same ingridients, however the brand name "Certi-Cool" by CSM uses a nearly 100% pure form of ammonium nitrate. The white powder (ammonium nitrate) is isolated from its reacting compound (possibly urea) inside the outer bag. Since the outer bag is clear, any fool should be able to cut open the outer bag without hitting the inner liquid bag. Hope this helps.

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