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Author Topic:   Legal Issues, Investigations, Entrapment
Vpr
Frequent Poster
posted April 03, 2000 10:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vpr   Click Here to Email Vpr     
This topic is for discussions about how teams of law enforcement investigators work the internet, where they can and do circumvent laws, ethics, and policies in order to set up entrapment situations, what to look for and how to avoid being set up, entrapped, accused, convicted and imprisoned.

I am going to give these sucker mouth parasite bastards and their families, friends and neighbors a few presents. They know me already. I DON'T recommend that others openly make statements like this.
I have experience in getting around these parasite scum bastards.

I have very limited time online to visit this site, but I will contribute to the topic when I am able.

Viper

Ho ju
Moderator
posted April 03, 2000 10:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ho ju   Click Here to Email Ho ju     
The way i see it a cop can not come out and ask you to do something wrong. like with prostitution, the hooker cop can not ask the man/or women wanting the sex If they want the sex. the non-cop needs to ask...or it is entrapment.

i think the same thing works online. if you get some cop posing as a 13 year old girl and he is talking to a 40 year old wacko, the 40 year old needs to ask to come see the 13 year old not the other way around. once the sicko asks though the cop can say yes and set it all up. i think it all boils down to who asks who. at least that is the way i see it. someone please tell me if i am wrong.

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-Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!!

[This message has been edited by Ho ju (edited April 03, 2000).]

Cypher
Frequent Poster
posted April 03, 2000 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cypher   Click Here to Email Cypher     
My hat goes off to you Vpr. Good thinking about posting a topic such as this, so we can all be informed and not end up doing something and getting busted because we didnt know the rules. Im definetley interested in knowing more about the legal aspects of our "hobby".

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Cypher


VeHeMT
Frequent Poster
posted April 04, 2000 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VeHeMT   Click Here to Email VeHeMT     
Ho Ju, we're not talking about pedophiles, so the situation is different, this is more of a someone asks you how to kill someone or how to destroy some building.


Ho ju
Moderator
posted April 04, 2000 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ho ju   Click Here to Email Ho ju     
yes but i believe the situation is the same. a cop can not ask you to blow of a building cause it would be entrapment. you yourself have to bring up and commit to the idea first. JUST LIKE what i said earlier about the 40 year old perverts

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-Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!!


megalomania
Administrator
posted April 04, 2000 10:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for megalomania   Click Here to Email megalomania     
The cops do indeed have to follow the law and they can not come right out and say certain things. They can ask you to kill someone and wait for you to quote the price. A cop cannot quote a price for sex, they ask you want you want and then wait for you to quote them a price. A good rule of thumb when involved in such dealings is always insist they quote a price first. Never say anything other than vague statements because if it's a sting, your on candied camera...

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Visit Megalomania's Explosives and Stuff at http://surf.to/megalomania


killer_elite
Frequent Poster
posted April 05, 2000 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for killer_elite   Click Here to Email killer_elite     
Cut the following statement out and paste it on your mirror where you will read it daily.

---------cut---------cut------------cut-----

BEWARE OF ANY NEW PEOPLE WHO COME INTO YOUR LIFE. They will most likely be INTRODUCED TO YOU BY A FRIEND. This friend, whom you may have known for years may or may not know this new person is really a cop. This is a time tested method used by cops for decades. They continue to use it because IT WORKS, AND BAGS MORE BAD GUYS THAN ANY OTHER TECHNIQUE USED. Cops scheme to find ways into 'the network'. IT PAYS TO BE AN ASSHOLE WITH NO FRIENDS (or as few as possible). Ask anyone sitting in prison.

------cut---------cut-----------cut---------


killer_elite


nbk2000
Moderator
posted April 05, 2000 10:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nbk2000   Click Here to Email nbk2000     
Also remember that just because your fucking them doesn't mean that they're not a cop. I've read of several cases where undercover female cops were having sex with the suspect (usually a drug dealer) to gain the targets trust. And then busting them.

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"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."


VeHeMT
Frequent Poster
posted April 05, 2000 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VeHeMT   Click Here to Email VeHeMT     
It only takes one instance in which the law enforcement individual does not conform to his own laws to get you busted. Not worth taking such a chance, you can appeal as much as you want, but usually EVEN if your innocent they will still lock you up.


Feticidal Fantasy
Frequent Poster
posted April 06, 2000 12:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Feticidal Fantasy   Click Here to Email Feticidal Fantasy     
The legal definition of entrapment is "The act of a peace officer to induce a person to commit a crime not already contemplated by that person, for the purpose of prosecution." And I belive entrapment is a felony. A peace officer would not commit a felony to bust you, espically since they know a high profile case like this would be highly investigated. A cop would be killed in minutes in prison, he would not risk that. Also, if you made a statement like "I blew up my neighbor yesterday." they cannot arrest you just for that. It is established in law that you cannot be convicted on your confession alone. If you made a statement like that, it would be enough probable cause for a judge to issue a search warrant and the FBI would come and search your house. That is, if they belive you and feel like waisting their time investigating. I think they have enough business already and would not spend too much time here. They have everyone's address that posts here.. if a bomb blew up in your town, you might get interigated.
Just don't blow anything up.. behave and they won't bug you.

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Feticidal Fantasy- http://www.darksites.com/souls/vampires/feticidal/
"Keep your gun as your constant companion."

[This message has been edited by Feticidal Fantasy (edited April 06, 2000).]

Vpr
Frequent Poster
posted April 23, 2000 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vpr   Click Here to Email Vpr     
Sorry I haven't been back for awhile. 'Entrapment' is more common and the manipulations and techniques used go beyond any legal protections you think you might have. I will elaborate more on this later.

Here is a quote i copied from an article I found at
http://www.7pillars.com

It is from 1997 and is outdated, as the tools used for espionage, and in the interest of NA_tional Z_ecurit_I are more advanced now.

Birds of a Feather
The amazing thing about questionable activities is that those engaged in them stick together--be it drug use, sexual behavior, or whatever, being 'in the group' lowers a number of guards. It commonly isn't even necessary to resort to blackmail--the bond of the mutual, shared sin offers grounds for 'mutual' concealment and disclosure of confidential details. One instance of this had an indesp [industrial espionage] professional discussing hacking and drugs, both of which he had developed a deliberate reputation for, with a group of similarly interested individuals; in the process of sharing details of their sins, the professional learned who to contact for the information sought, the best way to approach the subject, and the rough details, at least enough to pretend significant knowledge already, and to extrapolate considerably more.

--Michael Wilson 7Pillars Partners

http://www.7pillars.com




rjche
Frequent Poster
posted May 04, 2000 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rjche     
Guys you are all assuming the cop is going to tell the truth about what he did.

Do you carry one of those little digital tape recorders with you to have some proof what actually occured? Even with it you have only a small chance of beating a group of lying officers and prosecutors.

Are you up on what corruption was revealed in California by one cop who got sick of it and talked. Caused many prisoners to be released.

However, NO ONE has been criminally prosecuted as of yet, and I don't expect any to be.

How long since you heard of a prosecutor being prosecuted for the felony of assisting a criminal lie to a grand jury?

or a cop for lying to a jury?

or a judge for tampering with court records?

These things are not rare events. They happen every day. Cops belong to a gang, and like any gang, their loyalty is to other members FIRST, and to the GAME of busting people SECOND, and to the law and other good stuff LAST.

If you fail to understand that they can convict you if you cannot prove pretty persuasively to a jury that ALL OF THEM are lying, then you are not playing with a full deck.

Even having chemical books, magazines, chemicals, gun magazines, etc in your home when they search, will be used to convince the press (read that your future jurors) that you are a terrorist type.

How many news stories of persons who did something weird do you need to read where they list all the strange writings they found in their home as media proof the guy was a wacko? Well that same stuff will get to a jury also, one way or another. The prosecutor will see to it.

Bottom line, cops, prosecutors, judges, do not get punished for getting caught committing crimes. At most they are reprimanded, given paid vacations, and told to go forth and do better. They do. They try harder not to get caught next time.

Example, a kid bangs off a loud cracker. Neighbors complaint of an explosion. Cops come, track it to the kid. Get a warrant to search for explosives. Their affadavit to get it contains many lies, which they know you can't prove are lies.

They find chemicals and books on explosives, as well as lots of stuff on his computer. They seize the chemicals, and announce to the press they seized chemicals which can be used to make explosives. You get a local headline as a dangerous person. They take your chemicals out to a field, where the bomb squad puts a pound of C4 on it, and calls the press to take pix of the explosion your stuff caused.
You get charged under an obscure state law forbiding manufacturing explosives, without a state explosives license. The law has a definition of explosive that is wide as a barn. You fit it. The judge has seen the papers. A jury has too.

Your lawyer tells you to make deal or get burned bad.

Whether you do or not you get the shaft.

All that varies is its diameter and length.

If underage you might get leneincy. If 18 or over you get nothing. They need examples to show other people of how seriously they take explosives tinkering.

If there is anything in all that which seems unreal to you, study the papers about such incidents.

Shoot the cracker at school and expulsion is almost certain.

To underestimate the corruption of your enemy is to guarantee him success.

While you are pasting things on your forehead or mirror, try this, almost all cops lie willingly, all cops lie when they have to to support other cops.

The one cop who quit doing that in LA or SF whichever, is so rare that it got headlines worldwide.

All the things said in previous posts about rules, cease to function if the cop just says that didn't happen, and says something else did.

PyroTechnic
Frequent Poster
posted May 04, 2000 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PyroTechnic   Click Here to Email PyroTechnic     
there is a good ex about what he was/is talking about, some cops shot some guy to death recently, (it was on court tv for about 2 months of something) because they THOUGHT he had a gun, not a single cop served 30 min in jail, EVERY SINGLE ONE GOT SCOT FREE. one guy pumped like 15 rounds in him. if anyone knows what i am talking about post it because i forgot the name of the trial

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Guns dont kill people... i kill people


PyroTechnic
Frequent Poster
posted May 04, 2000 02:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PyroTechnic   Click Here to Email PyroTechnic     
some1 said before about prostitution. If you are getting a prostitute ask them ARE YOU A COP? it is illigal for a cop to say no. they will say something like "are you kidding?" if this happens just leave. only a straight no is when i would go thorugh with it.

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Guns dont kill people... i kill people


Ho ju
Moderator
posted May 04, 2000 04:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ho ju   Click Here to Email Ho ju     
i believe what you are refering to happened in NYC about 4 months ago. His name was Amadu Diallo. He was an imagrent and did not even speak english. The cops thought he had a gun but he was actually pulling out his wallet cause he thought he was getting robbed. The man of course was black and all 4 of the cops were white... but then again it actually was dark, and he did reach behind his back and pulled out something. If i was a cop i would have shot him.

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-Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!!


Maddoc
Frequent Poster
posted May 04, 2000 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maddoc     
I remember something like that.

They emptied their wepons into him, all 42 rounds.

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Whoa, where my fingers?


PyroTechnic
Frequent Poster
posted May 04, 2000 05:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PyroTechnic   Click Here to Email PyroTechnic     
that is what it was.

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Guns dont kill people... i kill people


VeHeMT
Frequent Poster
posted May 04, 2000 10:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VeHeMT   Click Here to Email VeHeMT     
This is very true, around here the law enforcement crew try to get anybody using illegal fireworks(small class c 1.5 inch black cats!) etc.. but will ignore a group of teens smoking drugs at a childrens park.

It is also well documented how law enforcement in the california(well, everywhere actually) area like to resell their 'loot' from drug runners and dealers.

nbk2000
Moderator
posted May 06, 2000 06:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nbk2000   Click Here to Email nbk2000     
Here's a fucked up parody of what happened to dude in New York. It's funny as hell, as well as being almost true.

"NYPD Apologizes For Accidental Shooting-Clubbing-Stabbing-Firebombing Death

Above: New York mayor Rudolph Giuliani, flanked by police commissioner
Howard Safir, fields reporters' questions about the accidental killing of
a Jamaican immigrant by 27 NYPD officers.

NEW YORK--New York City police commissioner Howard Safir issued a formal
apology Monday for the accidental
shooting-clubbing-stabbing-firebombing-choking-impaling-electrocution-lethal-injection
death of a 38-year-old Jamaican immigrant in the Bensonhurst section of
Brooklyn.

Livingston
Robert Livingston, who had emigrated from Kingston last July, was
surrounded and killed by 27 police officers on April 20 while standing on the
stairs in front of an apartment building reaching for what the officers thought
was a gun. The object turned out to be a doorbell.
"We deeply regret that this terrible tragedy has happened," said Safir,
reading an official NYPD statement at City Hall. "But I must stress that it was
understandable given the circumstances. There was no way those officers could
have known for certain that Mr. Livingston was not heavily armed and about to
kill them."
According to NYPD sources, at approximately 11:30 a.m. on the day in
question, a detachment of 12 officers observed Livingston, a delivery driver for
a Chinese restaurant, standing at the entrance to an apartment building "acting
in a suspicious and aggressive manner." After ignoring the officers' repeated
commands to put down the threatening item in his hand, a bag containing a double
order of General Chao's Chicken and a pint of rice, Livingston reached for the
doorbell. The officers responded by opening fire on his strategic
top-of-the-stairs position from point-blank range, discharging their
standard-issue 9mm handguns 245 times and striking him with approximately 175
teflon-coated hollow-point slugs.
Defiantly ignoring the officers' orders to freeze, Livingston dropped to
the floor and convulsed wildly, kicking and thrashing and hurling blood in all
directions.
"It was an extremely dangerous, volatile situation," Brooklyn 26th
Precinct Sgt. Raymond Sullivan said. "We were dealing with a man who was out of
control and willing to do anything to stop us. It was clear that subduing him
would necessitate extreme measures."
After calling for backup, the officers threw 25 phosphorus grenades at the
suspect and opened fire with 12-gauge riot shotguns, their vision aided by the
illumination of Livingston's body, which was burning at roughly 1,500 degrees.
Though most of Livingston's clothes had melted off, officers concentrated their
fire on his remaining shoe, which they feared held a concealed weapon.
Once 15 extra officers and an NYPD armory van had arrived on the scene,
Det. James McPhee took 10 men to the top of the stairs to engage Livingston in
hand-to-hand-combat.
"Mr. Livingston attempted to resist, raising his remaining forearm and
striking at the officers' weapons with his face, teeth, knees and genitals,"
McPhee told reporters. "Acting in accordance with standard police procedure, we
countered by stabbing the suspect 59 times in the chest and throat."
Patrolman Edward Caggiano, who sustained a mild bruise when hit by a piece
of Livingston's jaw in the melee, then grabbed the suspect's head and began
standard-procedure neck-snapping.
According to the officers involved, Livingston's head then attempted to
flee the scene by separating from his torso and proceeding down the front steps.
"I shouted several times for the fleeing head to halt," Caggiano said. "But the
more I yelled, the faster it seemed to roll. After every other option and tactic
was exhausted, we were finally left with no choice but to subdue the head with
rocket launchers."
Forensics experts said they hope to recover the several thousand missing
fragments of the head by next week.
Shortly after 1 p.m., Livingston was finally brought under control when a
second team of officers impaled his headless body on a sharpened oak pole. Once
the body was skewered, members of the NYPD medical team were given clearance to
move in and administer a lethal injection.
Speaking at a press conference Monday, New York mayor Rudolph Giuliani
called for the immediate paid suspension of all 27 officers involved in the
incident. He also urged Safir to keep the officers suspended "until they can be
cleared of all wrongdoing following an extensive internal NYPD investigation
that will conclude sometime Friday afternoon."
"And to the families of those officers involved," Giuliani said, "I would
like to extend my deepest, most heartfelt apologies. Your loved ones went
through a terrible trauma, and I want to assure you that the New York Police
Department is doing everything in its power to help them put it behind them."


© Copyright 1999 Onion, Inc., All rights reserved."

Ever hear of the term "DWB: Driving While Black"? Well, this is the other definition of DWB: Dead While Black.

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"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."

Search the archive before you ask. http://members.xoom.com/forumlibrary

[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited May 06, 2000).]

crossme18
Frequent Poster
posted May 08, 2000 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for crossme18   Click Here to Email crossme18     
I completely disagree with the cop hooker issue. Some cops will arrest the hookers, but most cops in big cities will get a blow, screw, money or so forth. I was in Las Vegas and saw hookers not getting arrested. Anyway I completely agree if I was planning to blow some dudes house up I wouldn't even tell someone in my city much less some of ya'll. I trust all ya'll but I wouldn't like disclose it before I did it. I might however show ya a picture of a bombing and say its my lakehouse. hehe. ALSO chances of running into a cop online is slim, chances are a user will turn you in first.

Randy

SofaKing
Frequent Poster
posted May 09, 2000 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SofaKing   Click Here to Email SofaKing     
Lol lol lol great story nbk2000 but they would have also latter brought the body to a field so they could detnonate any "explosive material he might have been carrying" with a 5lb charge of C4 to make sure to burn up any "chemical or biological agents"

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insert witty remark here


nbk2000
Moderator
posted May 10, 2000 04:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nbk2000   Click Here to Email nbk2000     
And when they blow up the body they'll say they did it "for the children".

Other buzzwords and catch phrases:

"Mad Dog" (out of date), "Career Criminal" (you stole a candy bar when you were 10 years old), "Danger to the Community", "Suspected Pedophile" and "Suspected Child Pornography" (they love using this when there is no proof of wrong doing to show the press since they can't legally show child porn to the press), "Stockpile of Weapons" (meaning a baseball bat and an empty beer bottle), "Suspected of other Crimes" (meaning they want to use you as a scapegoat for the cases they're too stupid to solve themselves), "Made a Furtive Movement" or "I thought he was reaching for a weapon" (they stopped you to fuck with you for no reason and, finding nothing, blew you away).

Anyone else have some good ones to add?

------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."

Search the archive before you ask. http://members.xoom.com/forumlibrary

[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited May 10, 2000).]

SofaKing
Frequent Poster
posted May 10, 2000 05:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SofaKing   Click Here to Email SofaKing     
Here's a great one "intent" or how about "allegedly"

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insert witty remark here


crossme18
Frequent Poster
posted May 10, 2000 08:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for crossme18   Click Here to Email crossme18     
Let's not forget biggest druger supplier around(has a stockpile of sandwich baggies). Or him being a child rapist(holding hands with a child).

Cops nowadays in big cities frame you when they goof up. Ex. Tom robbed a store, he told the lady to give him money, she did. He left. Tom ditched the gun and the cops chased him. Hes scared so he runs. The cop shoots him dead. No gun found so they leave one. Easy trick for cops to do. Wipe off their own fingerprints and leave it with the dead dude.

Ho ju
Moderator
posted May 10, 2000 08:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ho ju   Click Here to Email Ho ju     
wow i read the stockpile of weapons thing nbk said and he is not far off. a 1000 .22's found in your home will get the police to say that you have a stockpile of weapons ready to start a war (a brick of .22's is 500...2 is 1000 cost likes 30 bucks) that and if you are a hunter you might have more than one weapon. likea rifle or two, a shot gun, pistol and shells for each. stockpile right there. i hate the cops. they always think they are right and the only time they are wrong is if you have 10 times the amount of info that yiou would need to convict a normal man... pisses me off

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-Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!!


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