Note: This is an archived topic. It is read-only.
  The Explosives and Weapons Forum
  The 1999 Archive
  Home-Built Heat Seeking Missile Theory (Page 1)

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!

profile | register | preferences | faq | search


This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 
This topic was originally posted in this forum: Improvised Weapons
Author Topic:   Home-Built Heat Seeking Missile Theory
killer_elite
Frequent Poster
posted August 24, 1999 12:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for killer_elite   Click Here to Email killer_elite     
Home-Built Heat Seeking Missile Theory:

Of all the questions I get, this is perhaps the most often asked. Military heat-seekers have an incredibly complex guidence system built into them. Each one costs a million dollars and has a computer built right ito the nose. You don't even have to point it in the right direction, you program it.

I have consulted my vast library of knowledge and formulated the following opinions on building a homemade heat-seeking missile:

What is needed is a device that will adjust the fins and nozzle of the missile according to where heat is sensed. One device was recommended to me by a friend. In spy and security shops you can buy a device which senses body heat. It looks like a flashlight. It has four lights on the front and one in the middle. You point this toward where you believe someone is hiding and wave it back and forth and it picks up there body heat. The The four lights blink tellig the user to move right or left, up or down. When the center light comes on your are pointing directly at the source of heat.

To convert this into the guidence system of a heat-seeking missile the terrorist would have to rig up a system where the sensors adjusted the fins on the missile according to where they sensed heat, thus keeping it pointed in the right direction.

This is something an engineer would have to look into as I have left out a host of factors, including the missile itself and how it would be constructed.

Obviously because of the Sun this device would only work at night. I have no doubt though that someone much smarter than myself could build a prototype or at the very least design a set of blueprints from the basic information in this post. Its at least a starting point and would make a nice college project. I highly advise anyone undertaking this project to use an inert substance such as clay in place of the actual explosive. I know, I'm just no fun.

For informational purposes only.


killer_elite@my-Deja.com




ezekiel
Frequent Poster
posted August 28, 1999 06:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ezekiel   Click Here to Email ezekiel     
I intend to include basic designs on my site.

some ways to eliminate the problem of the sun are to either tune the sensors to ignore heat radiation at vey high levels (you need to be good with electronics) , or you can simply fire the missle at the target when it isn't close to then sun , and make the missle such that it only follows the heat instead of finding it (so you have to aim it at the target in the first place instead of just letting it rip so it will home in).
Getting decent IR sensors is the best way to make these , and using mirrors to angle them correctly.

------------------
__
ezekiel@cannabismail.com
"Hitler bad , explosions good"


poison
Frequent Poster
posted August 28, 1999 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for poison   Click Here to Email poison     
Ezekiel, What is your web address?
-pois


Predator
Frequent Poster
posted August 28, 1999 06:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Predator   Click Here to Email Predator     
Woohoo!

Now that I know a commercial heat sensor suitable for my icbm exists, I'm going to get me one

Killer_Elite, any idea how much they cost?
I could just go and buy the sensors alone individually myself, but I can't be arsed. besides I need that circuitry..... wire her up to a main switching panel, a few servos, a horizon angle sensor and my icbm is ready to rock and roll! Can't wait

/me runs out to town to Peats world of Electronics to pick up a catalogue

killer_elite
Frequent Poster
posted August 29, 1999 01:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for killer_elite   Click Here to Email killer_elite     
Predator, I believe you can get one of the heat sensors for less than $200. But if you really want to build a heat seeker you might consider putting an electrical engineer on the payroll. I only gave the theories of construction and left out a truck load of information.

You can get IR (heat) sensors, as well as any other sensor you might need from good old Radio Shack...right over in the burglar alarm section. You can also buy the bread boards and every other componant needed for the prototype. If you buy four IR sensors you wouldn't have to buy the device I discussed above, you could make your own.

If you want to see an absolutely incredibe movie on how to knock off a plutonium transport truck, go beg, barrow, steal or rent the 1982 movie titled: THE SOLDIER with Ken Wahl. This should be required watching for anyoe who is in this group. You not only learn how to steal plutonium, you learn how to make a fire bulb correctly, how to rig a shotgun up your sleeve to kill a policeman (works everytime!) and a host of other dirty tricks we all need to have in our arsenal.

I cannot over emphasize the fact that the number one item you all need in your arsenal is a Radio Shack catalog! Its worth ts weight in diamonds.

killer_elite@my-Deja.com

killer_elite
Frequent Poster
posted August 29, 1999 01:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for killer_elite   Click Here to Email killer_elite     
Predator, I believe you can get one of the heat sensors for less than $200. But if you really want to build a heat seeker you might consider putting an electrical engineer on the payroll. I only gave the theories of construction and left out a truck load of information.

You can get IR (heat) sensors, as well as any other sensor you might need from good old Radio Shack...right over in the burglar alarm section. You can also buy the bread boards and every other componant needed for the prototype. If you buy four IR sensors you wouldn't have to buy the device I discussed above, you could make your own.

If you want to see an absolutely incredibe movie on how to knock off a plutonium transport truck, go beg, barrow, steal or rent the 1982 movie titled: THE SOLDIER with Ken Wahl. This should be required watching for anyoe who is in this group. You not only learn how to steal plutonium, you learn how to make a fire bulb correctly, how to rig a shotgun up your sleeve to kill a policeman (works everytime!) and a host of other dirty tricks we all need to have in our arsenal.

I cannot over emphasize the fact that the number one item you all need in your arsenal is a Radio Shack catalog! Its worth ts weight in diamonds.

killer_elite@my-Deja.com

ezekiel
Frequent Poster
posted August 31, 1999 02:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ezekiel   Click Here to Email ezekiel     
site will be at

www.members.dencity.com/ezekiel/

sorry for the crappy layout and design , it'll all change once I have finished the layout , content will follow.

------------------
__
ezekiel@cannabismail.com
"Hitler bad , explosions good"


Jolly Roger
Frequent Poster
posted September 01, 1999 04:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jolly Roger   Click Here to Email Jolly Roger     
You should be able to rig up a PIR alarm device to do this - you might need more than one but you can get them from a suplus stock shop for about $10 for a box full (about £7.50)


DaRkDwArF
Frequent Poster
posted September 02, 1999 05:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkDwArF   Click Here to Email DaRkDwArF     
ok so your planning on making a heat attracted nuclear rocket, ok this is starting to get interesting, now all you need is a target.


ezekiel
Frequent Poster
posted September 02, 1999 03:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ezekiel   Click Here to Email ezekiel     
could you give me the phone numbers of some of these surplus stores?

------------------
__
ezekiel@cannabismail.com
"Hitler bad , explosions good"


Jolly Roger
Frequent Poster
posted September 02, 1999 04:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jolly Roger   Click Here to Email Jolly Roger     
go to http://www.bullnet.co.uk/shops/test/ - this is a company called bull electrical, they sell EVERYTHING, and they are closing a warehouse, so have a big sale on to get rid of everything CHEAPLY! Cool. They are based in Hove (sussex) so there are no overseas fees or anything


nbk2000
unregistered
posted September 05, 1999 04:02 PM           
Instead of dicking around trying to rig up something that will cost a fortune and require technical skills beyond your abilities, try something a little less high-tech. Video Cameras. More specifically the tiny ccd or cmos cameras that cost less than $100. Hook it up in the nose of your missile with a small transmitter. You fire the missile and keep your target centered in the cameras field of view and steer it in for the kill using high-end model aircraft RC. The whole guidance package (camera, transmitter, TV, and remote control) should come to less than $700 and would be almost 100% accurate. Check out my site for some real deal shit. I'm adding content as quick as possible. "http://www.50megs.com/nbk2000"


Ho ju
Moderator
posted September 05, 1999 11:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ho ju   Click Here to Email Ho ju     
Yes that or the TOW missle (tube launched opticaly sited wire guided missle)but the transmiter is a good idea. like one that transmits up to 200 yards.

------------------
Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!



Predator
Frequent Poster
posted September 06, 1999 08:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Predator   Click Here to Email Predator     
Lol!

A visual guidance system from a rc control kit.

No, this would be impractical.

A.) This is a rocket/missile big enough to hold the guidance equipment in the first place, it's going to be a big bugger of a rocket.

B.) the range of the radio system and camera feedback will be outdone by the rockets engine.
As Ho Ju said, a range of 200 yards for the camera feedback.... think of the missile being big enough to hold all this equipment coming down 200 yards away... your as good as dead.

And Nbk2000, the technical abilities for making a guidance system for a rocket/missile do not lie out of the range of capabilites of most of the people here..

nbk2000
Moderator
posted September 06, 1999 09:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nbk2000   Click Here to Email nbk2000     
Your obviously not up to date on video technology. A camera is only about 1 inch long, 1/2" or less in diameter, and weighs 1 ounce. The transmitter is about the same size with a line of sight of 1000 yards. All of it powered by a 9v battery. Total weight would be about 4 ounces max with a size smaller than a cigarette pack. And as far as the circuitry for the RC is concerned I suggest you read a copy of populalr science 2/98 pages 54-59. The servos are now smaller than your pinkies fingernail and getting smaller and cheaper every year. An TV guided missle was the first design that the military used. IR seekers took another 20 years to develop so to imply that anyone outside of a major company would be able to build one even remotely comparable to a military one is ludicrous. Even if you could, why spend that much money when you could build an optical system for much less. And what about non-aircraft targets? Could you use a IR missle to blow up a particular room in a tall building? NO. It would go for the hottest heat source. With an optical system, you could do a smart bomb imitation and plant the missle in through the window and kill only the person your after.

------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."




Predator
Frequent Poster
posted September 06, 1999 03:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Predator   Click Here to Email Predator     
Ah but Nbk2000, you forget the mass of engine, fuel, servos, rods, the mass of the warhead, and overall size/mass/enormity of the missile.

Firstly, people utilising this camera idea in the first place will not be putting a semi-expensive camera kit into a small missile that will do fuck all damage, they are of course going to put it into a BIG missile, one capable of damaging it's ground zero immensely.

Such a missile will throw out huge amounts of schrapnel from itself, and from the destroyed matter at ground zero.

I know the size of the camera kit is small, i've used one such coin sized one in my rc truck.

You are also forgetting the room in big missile needed for the radio reciever, the servos, the powering battery pack for the controls equipment and the rods that link the servos to the "fins" of the rocket..

------------------
*
Regards -WildEyedPsycho
*
WildEyedPsychos Advanced Improvised Weapons Site.


Predator
Frequent Poster
posted September 06, 1999 03:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Predator   Click Here to Email Predator     
Also the size of the servo needed to turn the "fins" os the missile for guidance would pretty much outclass said "micro or mini servos that get smaller and cheaper every year.."

------------------
*
Regards -WildEyedPsycho
*
WildEyedPsychos Advanced Improvised Weapons Site.


nbk2000
Moderator
posted September 07, 1999 02:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nbk2000   Click Here to Email nbk2000     
Ah, but Predator, you forget that your going to have a motor, servos, power supply, etc. with a heat seeker too. The mechanics of the missle will be the same either way. The difference will be in the guidance system. And an optically guided missile has the ultimate guidance computer, a human brain. You can fool a heat seeker with a flare decoy, but that won't fool a person. And also, if you use a PGM (Precision Guided Munition), you don't need a huge warhead to compensate for inaccuracies. A stinger missile warhead contains only a couple of pounds of explosive. And for blowing someone up a hand grenade sized warhead delivered through the window into the same room will do the job quite effectively. And last but not least, if someone is stupid enough to shoot down a plane while it's flying straight towards them, they deserve to have it fall on their head. You shoot from a flanking or rear position and momentum will carry the debris away from you.

------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."




ezekiel
Frequent Poster
posted September 07, 1999 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ezekiel   Click Here to Email ezekiel     
BOTH ideas are completely practical and have their own uses.
An IR missle would be best for a chopper or non military plane , and woould be harder to link to you. An optical missle would be great for a long range assasination.
Video transmitters costing £170 (for the reciever also , transmitters alone are about £90) can transmit very good quality video over 10 miles , 4 or 5 in a city.

Guided missles are very easy to design , and in theory make (assuming you have the right parts and tools) and require little knowlege either.

here are some estimated costs for missles:
IR - basic , 3 mile or so £170
IR - advanced , 4 mile or so £360

optical - 3 mile or so £250

(sorry to all the americans for sterling prices)

------------------
__
ezekiel@cannabismail.com
"Hitler bad , explosions good"


Jolly Roger
Frequent Poster
posted September 11, 1999 10:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jolly Roger   Click Here to Email Jolly Roger     
You can buy decent transmitters from bull electrical.... :-)


Washuu X
A New Voice
posted September 11, 1999 05:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Washuu X   Click Here to Email Washuu X     
Check out www.webcom.com/sknkwrks/ for some related info


nbk2000
Moderator
posted September 13, 1999 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nbk2000   Click Here to Email nbk2000     
While surfing around I found this picture.

This home-made RC plane uses a pulse-jet just like a buzzzbomb. Slap a camera in the nose, add a few pounds of HE, and you got yourself a DIY smart bomb. The page has plans at http://home3.inet.tele.dk/kennethm/ for the engines. Have fun.

------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them." www.50megs.com/nbk2000



Blaze
Frequent Poster
posted September 13, 1999 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blaze     
that plane is the best idea here.. why try to guide a rocket when a planes easier and better (and possible)...
With the heat sensors - you will probably find that they wont detect which direction the heat source is coming from but only tell when its pointing directly at it, so unusable for guidance. also any under $300 most likely will unly detect changes in temperature, From what ive seen (and used) theyre bloody useless, a novelty and a toy with no serious application. If your willing to pay more you can get them where you can program what temp. ranges to detect - but it still only works if your pointing it strait at it.


Ho ju
Moderator
posted September 13, 1999 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ho ju   Click Here to Email Ho ju     
You talk abnout prices. if you wanted to make a GOOD ir seaking rocket you would have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to even come close. a tomahawk missle is about 1 million dollars (for one) and these things are the shit. granted they represent the highest missle tech. you get my point. an ir seeking missle would not be possible on even a moderate budget. But the opticly sighted missles would work.

------------------
Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!



Ho ju
Moderator
posted September 13, 1999 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ho ju   Click Here to Email Ho ju     
i'm sorry not a tomahawk but a sidewinder.

------------------
Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!



This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 

All times are ET (US)

This is an ARCHIVED topic. You may not reply to it!
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Forum

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.38
© Madrona Park, Inc., 1998 - 1999.