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This topic was originally posted in this forum: Explosives
Author Topic:   HMTD vs AP
darcey
Frequent Poster
posted November 22, 1999 04:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for darcey     
which one is the more powerful out of the two? A friend and i made up a batch of HMTD todau and let it off with great sucess. I found that the HMTD was alot easer to make then the AP (it only took 30 mins where the AP takes 48 hours). I also thought that the HMTD was alot more powerful. Anyone else a great fan of HMTD? I have seen the light and will be making HMTD well into the new millenium.


wave
Frequent Poster
posted November 22, 1999 06:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wave   Click Here to Email wave     
yeah i like hmtd but
if you follow the instuctions on mega site .

how HMTD are you suppose to have at the end if you use 3% of proxide

darcey
Frequent Poster
posted November 22, 1999 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for darcey     
How to make HMTD.

* This explosive is VERY VERY VERY shock, friction and heat sensitive* in other terms if you hit it, jump on it, grind or ignite it, it will explode

Ingreadents:
6% Hydrogen Proxide (i acually use 3% proxide> because no one sells the 6%,
all you have to do it double the amount whan using 3%)

Hexamine tablets or hexie tabs- you can find these at camping or disposial stores, they come in a little box and smell like fish.

30% Hydrochloric acid- you can get this stuff from hardware stores, just ask
at the help desk (it will be somewhere near the brick stuff)

All you do is disolve one part, by volume, of hexamine in two parts of hydrogen proxide. Mix this well until no hexamine is undisloved. If you are mixing large amounts i recomend that you place this> in the fridge for about 15 mins or so just to let it all cool down before adding the acid. If you are using small amounts (tablespoons) i wouldn't worry about cooling it down. Next mix in one part hydrochloric acid and place into the fridge for 30 mins. Take out of the fridge and you should see little white crystals in the liquid. Filter these crystals out and WASH THOROUGHLY. FAILURE TO DO THIS COULD RESULT IN AN EXPLOSION.

*note*: HMTD gets very pissed off if you contaminate it with anything. That is why you have to wash it alot. You should never, i will say that again NEVER stir the mixture with ANYTHING when the acid has been added. When i said before to mix the acid into the hexie and proxide only swish it round in the jar or mixing contianer. Always wash all of your equipement in hot water but never with soap or dishwashing liquids, this could lead to an explosion.

poison
Frequent Poster
posted November 22, 1999 09:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for poison   Click Here to Email poison     
Acetone Peroxides det velocity is - 5300 m/s
And
HMTD det velocity is - 4511 m/s.
The info was off megas page.
-Poison


Blaze
Frequent Poster
posted November 23, 1999 02:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blaze     
It all depends on density.... as with most explosives.
an example is PETN, in det cord dets at 7km/s but when heavily compressed into a detonator reaches near 9km/s.. the peroxides would be the same


VeHeMT
Frequent Poster
posted November 23, 1999 12:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VeHeMT   Click Here to Email VeHeMT     
Yup, on mega's site it also says that the AP in loose form was 1.18 g/cc and that the HMTD in loose form was 0.88 g/cc.
HMTD pressed will detonated well over 5000m/s.


Ho ju
Moderator
posted November 23, 1999 06:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ho ju   Click Here to Email Ho ju     
Pressing HMTD? ha! that is suicidal. but i know what you were getting at VeHeMT. I would assume HMTD is more powerful just by the first hand accounts of the people on the forum. Most people say they have more luck with HMTD when setting off things like ANFO and others of the like.


wave
Frequent Poster
posted November 23, 1999 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wave   Click Here to Email wave     
is two differnt ways of making HMTD
because i heard two differnts ways so far

one from darcy -he talk about using Hydrochloric acid
and one on mega site -he talk about a way that you dont got to use Hydrochloric acid


poison
Frequent Poster
posted November 23, 1999 08:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for poison   Click Here to Email poison     
HMTD is louder but AP has more shattering power and it detonates anfo and stuff easyer the HMTD. I prefer explosives that have more shattering power opposed to loudness.
-Poison


dlwdaw
Frequent Poster
posted November 23, 1999 08:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dlwdaw   Click Here to Email dlwdaw     
this was taken from kitchen improvised detontaors available at.
nbk's site.
by the way, NBK, can I add your bookz to my bookz site?
I will give credit.
thanks

"""""""


HMTD, use one of the processes below.

Process #1

Obtain 6% hair bleaching peroxide which is available from any
beauty salon or beauty supply store. This is a 20 volume hydrogen peroxide.
Place 9 teaspoons of this. 6% peroxide in a one pint canning jar or 500 ml
beaker. In three portions dissolve by stirring 2-1/2 teaspoons of powdered
hexamine (Crushed U.S. Army ration heating tablets, See "Kitchen Improvised
Plastic Explosives" chapter 2, "Urintropine" etc.). This is stirred until
all the hexamine dissolves. The solution should then be chilled in a ice
water bath for 1/2 hour. To this chilled solution add, in four portions,
4-1/2 teaspoons of powdered citric acid. Citric acid is readily available
and should be found with canning supplies or in a pharmacy. With each
addition the solution should be stirred until the citric acid dissolves in
the liquid before another addition is made. When all the additions have
been made continue stirring the liquid. The beaker or jar containing the
solution should remain in the ice bath. The solution will become cloudy.
With the completiorì of the 1/2 hour stirring the liquid is placed in a
refrigerator. This will speed the process. If a refrigerator is not
available let the solution stand for 24 hours. Filter the solution through
a paper towel or coffee filter. The white substance is the explosive.

CAUTION: HMTD is sensitive to shock, impact, friction, heat and open flame.
Extreme care should be exercised. HMTD will detonate from any of these
stimuli even when soaked with water.

These white crystals are washed with 45 ml of distilled water. Tap
water can be used if necessary, but will yield a compound of lesser purity.
They are then washed with 75 ml methanol alcohol. These crystals are
allowed to dry in a cool dry place. If a 30% technical grade ("Superoxol")
of hydrogen peroxide is available it should be used instead of the 6%. If
30% is used the proportions are as follows to use in the same process as
above are:

HYDROGEN PEROXIDE. "Superoxol" (30% d. 1.11 G/cc)- 185 G
HEXAMINE (Crushed ration heating tablets) 56 G
CITRIC ACID (tech. grade or food grade) 84 G

These are used in the procedure given above. Simply "plug in" the amount
immediately above for the spoon wise proportions given in the 6% hydrogen
peroxide process and the washing would be done with 150 ml cold water. Of
course in the procedure if 35% or 40% is the only type hydrogen peroxide
available, then simply calculate the actual weight of hydrogen peroxide. We
know that 185 G. of peroxide are used above. This is 30% hydrogen
peroxide.185 G. X.30=55.5 G.. We know that we need 55.5 G. hydrogen
peroxide. Suppose we have some 40% peroxide. We take our 55.5 and divide
by.40 thus 55.5 / 0.40=138.75. Simply use 139.0 G. of this 40% hydrogen
peroxide in the procedure above. The yield of this process with 30%
hydrogen peroxide is much greater that is the use of 6% hydrogen peroxide.
But with the 6% being the easier of the two to obtain it still would hold
possibilities

PROCESS #2

This second process is one of very easy acquisition of the main
ingredients. Yield is not as high as the procedure above with either
strength peroxide. This process makes use of the easy formation of hexamine
and the parallel formation of a slightly acid solution. This acid is
liberated from the ammonium sulfate salt. It is, of course, sulfuric acid.
This acid performs the function of the citric acid in the procedure above.
This is after the free ammonia and the formaldehyde form hexamine. Yield
will be relatively low with this procedure but the materials are readily
available and cheap. Since this procedure takes place at a elevated
temperature there will be some lost of product to this subsequent heat and
the decomposition that will accompany it. This process will work and could
be used if necessary.

Five hundred grams of 3% hydrogen peroxide are placed in a quart jar
or 1000 ml beaker. Three percent hydrogen peroxide is available as an
antiseptic solution in grocery stores, etc... To this is added fifty grams
ammonium sulfate. Ammonium sulfate is available as common fertilizer. This
is stirred until dissolved. This liquid should be heated in a water bath to
55 degrees C. (131 degrees F.). Immediately when the temperature reaches
this temperature add 5.3 grams of 37% formaldehyde solution. Stir this
solution well and take off water bath. Let this liquid cool to room
temperature and set for 24 hours. A white product will be seen in the
liquid at this time.

CAUTION: This white product is dangerous and sensitive to FRICTION, SHOCK,
HEAT OR FLAME. Handle with great care !! Even wet H.M.T.D. is dangerous
and will detonate with ease.

This is filtered out and washed with one washing of 50 ml distilled
water and then with 75 ml of 100% methanol. The methanol will speed the
drying process. This white fluffy powder will be H.M.T.D. This powder will
be sensitive to friction and small quantities should be handled.
"""""""

------------------
-dlwdaw

"... always look on the positive side of things, blow things up not down"

-- Ragnar Benson




darcey
Frequent Poster
posted November 24, 1999 12:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for darcey     
i find it alot easer to make with HCL acid. I have tryed to make it wil citric acid and had no luck. Think i will stick to the HCL way, its alot easer.


nbk2000
Moderator
posted November 24, 1999 02:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nbk2000   Click Here to Email nbk2000     
Dlwdaw, if you want to you can copy the bookz to your site. Just change the style and coloring so it won't be confused with my sites styling. Or you can link to it as long as it's obvious it's on my site and not yours.

------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them." www.50megs.com/nbk2000



dlwdaw
Frequent Poster
posted November 24, 1999 02:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dlwdaw   Click Here to Email dlwdaw     
thanks, did you type it up?
I just wanted to make sure before I just took them.
thanks

------------------
-dlwdaw

"... always look on the positive side of things, blow things up not down"

-- Ragnar Benson




fart
unregistered
posted November 26, 1999 03:37 PM           
Does anyone know if the heat bars Trioxane are good for making anything other than heat?

The formula is C3 H6 O3

Its name is Formaldahyde Trimer
or
1,3,5, Trioxane

and its available as military surplus
Fuel, Compressed, Trioxane
Mil spec Mil-F-10805C



Dr-D
Frequent Poster
posted November 28, 1999 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dr-D     
not that I know of. I'm pretty sure trioxane can't be used for anything usefull besides burning it...



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