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Thermite

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Author	Topic: Thermite
NetworkNightmare A New Voice	posted November 08, 1999 11:46 PM Does anyone here have experience with this? I know it is made with Iron Oxide i.e. (Rust) and finely ground aluminum powder,which is easily made from AL foil ground up.Anyway what is the best ratio to mix it in and where can I get the magnesuim required to ignite it?
megalomania Administrator	posted November 09, 1999 12:08 PM Good luck getting magnesium nowadays. It was recently put on The List of Bad Chemicals Used by Drug Dealers, so it is a "watched" chemical, I told ya the Grignard Reaction was good. If you buy magnesium from a chem supplier you will be put on The List of Bad People Who Make Drugs and Must be Watched ------------------ Visit Megalomania's Explosives and Stuff at http://surf.to/megalomania
Kalium unregistered	posted November 09, 1999 12:14 PM You dont need magnesium to ignite thermit.A sugar sodium chlorat mix with 3part sugar and two parts chlorat will work.
Dr-D Frequent Poster	posted November 09, 1999 02:50 PM yes, I have heard that sugar+chlorate mixture will ignite it. Also a sparkler should do the trick. Magnesium can be obtained from those fire starter things I belive thats what they are made of. BTW- Does chlorate+sugar burn more feirce than say K nitrate+sugar?
Ho ju Moderator	posted November 09, 1999 04:09 PM Dr-D i was going to mention kno3 + sugar until i read your post. is it possible to ignte thermite with a small pile of kno3 +sugar in the middle of the thermite? ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! -The eagle may soar but the weasle does not get sucked into jet engines. -The beatings will continue until morale improves.
darcey Frequent Poster	posted November 09, 1999 04:26 PM when i tryed the Kn03+suger, it didn't work. If you have any access to school science labs or places like that you should be able to steal some magnesium. Also in camping shops they sell magnesium fire starters, small blocks of magnesium mixed with aluminum that have a piece of flint down the side of them. You can file these and collect the powder, it will ignite thermite but it takes awhile to get a good amount of powder.
nbk2000 Moderator	posted November 09, 1999 04:58 PM A mix of equal parts sulfur and metal powder (Al or Mg) will ignite thermite. Make a tube going down the middle of your thermite and fill it with the mix and cover the top with a layer of the mix. Then pour your chlorate/sugar mix on top of it to ignite it. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them." www.50megs.com/nbk2000
*Igenx* Frequent Poster	posted November 11, 1999 08:49 PM Those firestarters can be ground safely using a grinder wheel with a large cardboard V at the bottom to catch the powder. This wheel must be clean of other materials for this to work without making sparks. It is still corse, but it is much easire to powder once it is in this form
Dr-D Frequent Poster	posted November 11, 1999 09:17 PM Could someone who has made a batch of thermite take a small pile and pour glycerine on it and see if anything happens. This was in a post a long time ago, and I am curious as to what would happen. From what I can think of nothing. But they said it ignited the thermite...
nbk2000 Moderator	posted November 11, 1999 10:00 PM Glycerine would have absolutly no effect on thermite. It could be used to ignite a permanganate/aluminum powder mix which in turn ignites the thermite. Other than that, nothing. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them." www.50megs.com/nbk2000
VeHeMT Frequent Poster	posted November 12, 1999 01:23 PM I posted about the glycerine, and to clear things up this is what it concerned. I saw on Jay Leno a science demo where they ignited thermite by pouring glycerine over it. I posted a question as to what other then potassium permanganate would ignite with glycerine. It was indeed thermite because they had it in steel containers which after a while melted right through the containers ( they had some crap underneath it to protect the precious stage :] ). It would appear then that they ahd some normal thermite with permanganate(with or without fuel) ontop of it or else an incendiary mix capable of igniting thermite(this is if the permanganate isnt able to) on top of the thermite with some permanganate(with or without some fuel) ontop of that. So when they poured the glycerine over the thermite the permanganate ignited causing the thermite to ignite.
NetworkNightmare A New Voice	posted November 12, 1999 09:21 PM Thats for all the advice on lighting it,but could you help with the ratio of aluminum to iron oxide i.e. rust problem!What is the best ratio to use for maximum effect.
Ho ju Moderator	posted November 12, 1999 11:44 PM i have always read 1:1 by volume but i have never made it so someone else's answer should be taken. Could someone tell me what the roles of the aluminum and iron(III)oxide take in the reaction? (i.e. what contributes what to the reaction, or why it burns so hot) ------------------ -Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!! -The eagle may soar but the weasle does not get sucked into jet engines. -The beatings will continue until morale improves.
nbk2000 Moderator	posted November 13, 1999 04:53 AM Thermite, one of the most common pyrotechnic incendiary agents, is essentially a mixture of powdered ferric oxide and powdered or granular aluminum. When raised to its ignition temperature an intense reaction occurs whereby the oxygen in the ferric oxide is transferred to the aluminum, producing molten iron, aluminum oxide, and releasing 750 kilocalories per gram. A standard thermite reaction is shown as follows: 8 Al+3 Fe.sub.3 O.sub.4 .fwdarw. 4 Al.sub.2 O.sub.3 +9 Fe This exothermic reaction may produce a temperature of about 3000.degree. C. under favorable conditions. The white-hot molten iron and slag may itself prolong and extend the heating and incendiary action. Other types of thermite mixtures containing metals and the oxides of other metals other than iron oxide are known: aluminum/manganese oxide (4 Al+3 MnO.sub.2); aluminum/chromium oxide (2 Al+Cr.sub.2 O.sub.3) and others. Aluminum/iron oxide mixtures (8 Al+3 Fe.sub.3 O.sub.4) have proved to be the most effective incendiary composition for destruction of steel targets because superheated liquid products are formed by the reaction. These molten products affect a high rate of conductive heat transfer to the steel target and, therefore, cause destruction of the target. Any combination metal/metal oxide capable of high rates of conductive heat transfer can be used. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them." www.50megs.com/nbk2000
fart unregistered	posted November 16, 1999 10:35 PM Some chemistry books that give heats of formation do not give the units for their tabulations and that can lead to errors. generally when they say kilocalories they are talking about per formula weight of the compound, as in Kc/mole wt. when they say calories they are talking about calories per gram. For a guide, many explosives produce only about 500 calories per gram, but they produce a large volume of gas, and go off fast. Armstrong explosive produces about 1500 cal/gram, but produces only P2O5, a solid at room temp, but fierce at incandescent temps. Thermites produce no gas to speak of and the great heat comes from the burning of metals that are very reactive and produce much more heat per gram than the metal oxides or other oxides used to burn them. Aluminum can "take" oxygen from many other less reactive metals, if you can get its atoms vibrating hard enough to overcome the repulsive force between them and the oxidizing agent's molecules.

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