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Author	Topic: AP putty
sharky Frequent Poster	posted August 17, 1999 10:09 PM Is AP putty less sensitive than just plain AP crystals? Also, do you think a small matchbox full of AP would have enough of a shock to detonate ANFO or picric acid? thanks sharky
poison Frequent Poster	posted August 18, 1999 01:14 AM The answer is YES to both questions. -pois
BioHaz unregistered	posted August 18, 1999 01:20 AM Where would I go about getting or creating Iodine chrystals to make Ammonium triiodide crystals (ammonia + iodine chrystals) Thanks.
savage A New Voice	posted August 18, 1999 01:22 AM I think you might find AP putty more sensitive, reason being - all those crystal stuck on the outside rubbing up on things with nowhere to go. But probably still safer than trying to compress it into a container. Desensitise it by coating it in furthur coats of nitrocellulose until the surface is smooth.
Saiyan Knight Frequent Poster	posted August 18, 1999 11:46 AM Shary, It all depends on how much ANFO you are trying to detonate. You will need about 50 grams of high explosive to detonate a 5 pound charge of ANFO. If you were planing on detonating a large amount of ANFO, you will need 2 pounds of high explosives for every 50 pounds of ANFO. Also, AP putty is less sensitive than AP itself. The nitrocellulose acts as a plasticizer and desensitizer for AP.
megalomania Administrator	posted August 18, 1999 05:03 PM Making ammonium triiodide is not a very economical past time, but useful as a small demonstration of chemistry. Drug users have made iodine all but illegial, to make some crystals yourself get a tincture of iodine from a farm type store, it is for animals. There are more of these stores than you think, but probably not around large cities. Mix 1 gallon of 7% iodine tincture to 4 gallons H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) heat and stir then take five cap fulls of bleach and five capfulls of HCl (muratic acid from hardware store) and alternate adding them to the Iodine solution (bleach-acid-bleach-acid) then stir The crystals are insoluable in water so they drop to the bottom, then pour of the solution and collect the crystals on a filter. This is supposed to yield 1lb of crystals to every gallon of iodine used. ------------------ Visit Megalomania's Explosives and Stuff at http://surf.to/megalomania
savage A New Voice	posted August 20, 1999 12:53 AM what i was getting at with the putty being more sensitive is that, once set, the outside has the texture of sandpaper which cant be good for friction sensitivity. If however its completely covered in nitrocellolose until smooth friction sensitivity will effectively be nil.
Zanx Frequent Poster	posted August 21, 1999 09:28 PM About the ANFO, I've never had much success with AP detonating ANFO I tried 5 grams of AP putty for 50 grams of ANFO tightly packed and buried about 10 inches under the ground and it didn't work. Then I tried mixing 5% HMTD with the ANFO and then using 5 grams of HMTD putty and it worked. I got a crater in my yard about 2 feet wide and a foot and a half deep. Dirt went flying all over the neighbors roofs. I guess HMTD is more brisant then AP? What other explosives besides TNT, nitroglycerin, and EGDN (I thats how its spelled)can be added to Ammonium Nitrate to make it cap sensative? I know that you can add Aluminum powder but I can't find that anywhere besides like Skylighter. Some places I've read say for ANFO, the AN should be ground up, others say it shouldn't, that it makes it less sensative. Should it be? And does the 5-6% FO make it more sensative, or just make it less hygroscopic (or however thats spelled) Again, thanks for the help on my dumb questions.
sharky Frequent Poster	posted August 22, 1999 02:22 PM Thanks for all your answers... I have a few more questions.... Would Bullseye be easier to detonate than ANFO? Also, in the ap putty, does the nitrocellulose actually detonate or is it only the AP? sharky
Saiyan Knight Frequent Poster	posted August 22, 1999 09:53 PM Zanx, the more dense and tightly packed ANFO is, the harder it is to detonate. This is probably why it didn't work. The prills or powdered ANFO(which ever method you used) must be loose in the charge container for them to sucessfuly to detonate. When ANFO is used correctly, it can explode all the way up to 15,000 fps. Also a good sensitizer for ammonium nitrate is nitromethane. By combining ammonium nitrate with nitromethane in a ratio to 430grams ammonium nitrate to 80mL nitromethane will create a explosive mixture more powerful than TNT. This explosive is sensitive to a #6 blasting cap(a blasting cap containing 1 gram of primary explosive). But I recommend a #8, or even better a compound blasting cap to get better performance out of the explosive. By mixing 20grams of aluminum powder before the nitromethane is added would increase the power, but is not required. Also by adding bull's eye double based smokeless propellant or any other double based smokeless propellant with a high nitroglycerine content to ANFO in 5-10% by weight quantities, you can make it cap sensitive. And the main reason for the fuel oil in ANFO is to retain the moisture that ammonium nitrate pulls from the air. It also increases the sensitivity too, but not much.
Saiyan Knight Frequent Poster	posted August 22, 1999 09:58 PM Sharky, bull's eye is way easier to detonate than ANFO because of the nitroglycerine content. And in AP putty the nitrocellulose will not really detonate because of the low nitrogen content of the nitrocellulose, but the nitroglycerine may detonate.
prev. savage unregistered	posted August 22, 1999 11:33 PM I think youll find #8 detonators are compound caps. containing a base of .45 or .95 (forget) grams of PETN initiated with a lead styphnate/lead azide/aluminium composition. Also, the fuel oil in ANFO increases sensitivity 100 fold..... trying to detonate ANFO without it is like trying to make blackpowder without charcoal.
Saiyan Knight Frequent Poster	posted August 23, 1999 03:47 PM That is true about some #8 detonators, but they also make straight #8 detonators that contain only primary explosive( lead azide, lead styphnate). The fuel oil in ANFO does not increase the sensitivity of ammonium nitrate alot. Ammonium nitrate can be detonated alone.
dlwdaw Frequent Poster	posted August 30, 1999 04:59 PM you can buy Al. powder at www.pyrotek.org www.netins.net/showcase/iowapyrosup http://home.if.rmci.net/firefox1 http://www.fishersci.com/ fisher science has everything, they have hydrazine, iodine crystals, etc. ------------------ >><>signature<><< this is the cops give me all your ...ahem.. books on making, ahem.. bombs. :-)
rjche unregistered	posted October 24, 1999 11:23 AM anf (fertilizer grade an, prilled) can be set off without other explosives if you use a gase explosion to initiate it. A sure fire one is to put the an into a tank, and pressurize the tank with propane to 100 psig then add pure 0xygen (welding) till the pressure goes on up to 300 psig. You need a glow plug in the tank to set it off. use the small model airplane types. A 14 oz propane cylinder full of an with this gas mix in it will fluff up dirt to the surface when buried about 4 ft deep. to make anfo very sensitive use only 1% fuel, and of a powder type like sulfur, wax, etc that will not soak into the prills. This causes a surface reaction that then takes the rest of it off. See Cooks book on Hi explosives for lots of data on an expl. fine ground an fertilizer with 1% parafin wax added and well mixed, or any other wax, especially those that come as powders, and compressed to density of 1, will go from #6 cap. U can use mothballs as sensitizer also but use the 1% concentration, and fine powder, and no more packed than density .8 to 1.0.
nbk2000 Moderator	posted October 24, 1999 02:37 PM How did you manage to mix compressed oxygen with a fuel without blowing yourself up? Anyone trying this is risking a spontaneuos explosion. And you can't use mothballs unless it's napthalene. All the mothballs I've seen have replaced it with paradichlorobenzene which is worthless for explosives use. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them." www.50megs.com/nbk2000
dlwdaw Frequent Poster	posted October 24, 1999 03:09 PM its cause you live in california all the mothballs I have seen are 99.99% napthalene. I have an old box of 100% naptthalene. they are called old fashioned moth balls by Enov or something like that. and I have only seen paradichlorobenzene in moth crystals. ------------------ -dlwdaw "... always look on the positive side of things, blow things up not down" -- Ragnar Benson
nbk2000 Moderator	posted October 24, 1999 04:17 PM Then california sucks more than ever. Have you recently seen napthalene mothballs for sale where your at? Or are you going by what you remember being available? I haven't seen natpthalene in years. Maybe because of prop. 65. ------------------ "The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them." www.50megs.com/nbk2000
Dr-D Frequent Poster	posted October 24, 1999 05:10 PM The good old napthlene moth balls are still around. At the Dillons chain of grocery stores they sell 2 kinds, both made my Enox. The parabenzene-whatever ones and then the "Old Fashioned" ones which contain the napthelene. Btw, I bougth a box but need ideas for using it all up. I thought about making a napthelene charge to make a fire ball but I dont see how this works unless it throws it in the air like a dust explosion... (can BP be used or does it have to be Nitrocellouse?)
nbk2000 Moderator	posted October 24, 1999 05:25 PM I saw a show on the discovery channel about special effects and when they made fireballs for explosions, they had the napthalene flakes mixed in with BP. But I would think that smokeless would work also since the idea is to heat the nap to it's ignition point and blow it into a cloud so it can burn.
dlwdaw Frequent Poster	posted October 24, 1999 06:45 PM I bought a box a few weeks ago. it was at a hardware store and every single grocery store I have been at since i was born for real here in VA they are everywhere. and I saw that show too I think. the guy mixed soem BP and napthalene in a huge plastic bag. what is prop 55? and I saw some at CVS. and safeway and rite aid. and mine were made by enox ------------------ -dlwdaw "... always look on the positive side of things, blow things up not down" -- Ragnar Benson
Dr-D Frequent Poster	posted October 24, 1999 06:53 PM Intersting,I wonder how it gets throw into the air... The blackpowder I have made before burned very slowly and melted through any container, producing white hot molten slag most of the time. I wonder if there are any other uses of napthelene?
dlwdaw Frequent Poster	posted October 24, 1999 08:22 PM yes, napthalene makes WONDERFUL moth repellant. but what you do is mix 70/30 BP/napthalene 50/50 BP/Napthalene then 70/30 napthalene/BP poke a hole into a tube insert a quite long fuse. press plain BP into the tube sealed at one end then putthe 70/30 BP/N in the tube. press it hard. now put the 50/50 mix. press it hard. now the 70/30 N/BP now press in alot of plain napthalene. this will ensure ignition. use equal amounts of BP 70/30 BP/N 50/50 and 70/30 N/BP then put alot of N in the tube. this SHOULD work but I havent tried ------------------ -dlwdaw "... always look on the positive side of things, blow things up not down" -- Ragnar Benson
megalomania Administrator	posted October 25, 1999 04:18 PM Well there is the difference between the east coast and the west coast I would gladly exchange some of the stupid naphthalene we have over here in the east for some of that precious PDCB (p-dichlorobenzene) you have over there in the west. I am suprised California even has chemicals at all, the little PDCB that I found says "evil in California" , or something to that effect The only PDCB in the east is in toilet bowl fragrance. It is artifically scented, not good for chemical work. This knowledge comes from my survey. I made one lonely discovery, only the Phar-Mor chain of stores had PDCB for sale as mothballs. PDCB is important to me because it is a source of aromatic chemicals, namely I can make benzene from it. It is not useful or handy except in an improvisional chemistry way. The only other organic chemical that is closley related to benzene is toluene, and I know it seems to be drying up. PDCB is very important to me now, I thought it was drying up as well, now I know its on the rise, heh heh. Theoretically, you can do a Hunsdiecker reaction on PDCB dissolved in ether. A Hunsdiecker reaction simply adds magnesium metal to the solution (being absolutely dry of course). The magnesium inserts itself between the carbons of the benzene ring and the chlorines. Adding water to this new organo magnesium will cause those chlorines to fly off to a better place with the magnesium, this leaves those poor carbons with no partners, so they get hydrogens as a booby prize. This then makes benzene! Everybody always wants to know how to make benzene from otc stuff, now you know. Of course magnesium metal isn�t all that easy to come by, which is why I have lots of Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) in my electrolysis gadget. The magnesium sulfate becomes magnesium hydroxide, I add hydrochloric acid from the hardware store to make magnesium chloride, magnesium can be electrolyzed to make magnesium metal, the magnesium metal is added to those mothballs, and benzene is my reward. All of these chemicals are grocery/hardware store bought, and everything can be done at home. A very important requirement. What�s the point here? Well, I am finally done with the Great Edit on my website, and it�s time to shift gears. Shift to what? Namely the chemical synthesis section, it�s high time I started to put a little more work into finding out where/how to get some of these chemicals. In short, with benzene you can make aniline, phenol, halo benzenes, and a host of other simple aromatics, these in turn can be used to make just about any chemical out there � especially those used to make explosives... ------------------ Visit Megalomania's Explosives and Stuff at http://surf.to/megalomania
Ho ju Moderator	posted October 25, 1999 04:59 PM Dum Dum Dum! (sound effects always help) ------------------ Knowledge is power, power leads to corruption, corruption is a crime, crime doesn't pay. So if you know to much you will go broke!!

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